
Hydraulic vs electric actuation in robotics | Marc Raibert and Lex Fridman
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GUEST BIO: Marc Raibert is founder and former long-time CEO of Boston Dynamics, and recently Executive Director of the newly-created Boston Dynamics AI Institute.
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Marc Raibert discusses the technical innovations required to create natural, dynamic robot movement, arguing that hardware innovation (particularly in hydraulics and control systems) combined with forward-looking predictive algorithms (rather than reactive servo control) are essential to achieving lifelike robot locomotion.
- Hydraulic valve design from the 1950s remained largely unchanged until Boston Dynamics innovated new circuits and integrated power supplies, showing hardware still has significant room for advancement
- Predictive dynamic control using limited-horizon calculations (1-2 seconds ahead) enables natural movement better than reactive servo approaches that only correct based on current state
- Running appears more natural than walking in robots because aggressive, forward-leaning motion with spring-like compliance better mimics human biomechanics
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Dynamic control approaches that predict the future motion of a robot over several seconds ahead and pre-emptively adjust control signals produce more natural movement than reactive servo approaches that only correct based on the robot's current state.
“taking a dynamic approach where you think about what's the evolution of the motion of the thing going to be uh in the future and having a prediction of that that's used at the time that you're uh giving signals to it as opposed to it all being servoing which is servoing is sort of backward looking it says okay where am I now I'm gonna I'm gonna try and adjust for that but you really need to think about what's coming”
Humans, including most gymnasts and athletes, do not actually understand the physics of how they perform their movements; they learn through coaching and practice but typically lack explicit physical and mathematical understanding of the mechanics.
“unfortunately though when you humans don't really know how they do it yeah right we we're coached we we have ways of learning but do we really understand in a physical in a physics way uh what we're doing probably most gymnasts and athletes don't know”
Running appears more natural in robots than walking because running involves more aggressive leaping motions where the robot is more continuously in dynamic motion, whereas walking's intermittent contact creates control challenges.
“it just shows that the more aggressive and kind of the more you leap into the unknown the more natural it is I mean walking is kind of falling always right and something weird about the knee that you can kind of do this folding and unfolding and get it to work out”
To achieve sufficient rotation rate in 3D somersaults, robots must perform tucking motions (withdrawing the legs) to accelerate rotation, similar to how human gymnasts tuck to spin faster.
“in order to get enough rotation rate you needed to do tucking also uh you know withdraw the legs in order to accelerate it”
The basic design of hydraulic control valves had remained largely unchanged since the 1950s when they were designed for airplane safety, with little meaningful innovation despite potential for significant improvement through new circuit designs and integrated components.
“most of hydraulic uh control that is the valve that controls the flow of oil had been designed in the 50s for airplanes it had been made robust enough safe enough that you could count on it so that humans could fly in airplanes and very little Innovation had happened”
Compliance (spring-like elasticity) in robot leg design is important to how natural walking and running works, with proper spring behavior enabling efficient motion transfer and stability.
“there's compliances compliance me spring in the the design that are important to how it all works well”
For acrobatic maneuvers like somersaults where the robot must stick a landing, the control system must plan much further ahead than normal locomotion, pre-calculating momentum and rotation requirements at launch to ensure the landing is within reach.
“if you're doing something like a somersault you're looking out a lot further right if you want to stick the landing you have to get the you you have to at the time of launch have uh you know momentum and uhh rotation all those things coordinated so that a landing is Within Reach”
For typical robot locomotion like walking on even terrain, a limited prediction horizon of approximately 1-1.5 seconds is sufficient, with the control system recalculating at roughly 10 times per second, updating predictions based on current obstacles and foot placement.
“I think that the number is only a couple of seconds for spot so there's uh limited Horizon uh type approach where you're recalculating assuming what's going to happen in the next a second or second and a half and then you keep iterating you know at the next even though a tenth of a second later you'll say okay let's do that again and see what's happening and you're looking at what the obstacles are where the feet are going to be placed”
Boston Dynamics achieved the first 3D somersault with a 2-legged robot while at MIT, with graduate student Russ Tedrake who was also a champion gymnast before becoming an engineer.
“R Rob was my graduate student and we were at MIT which is when we made you know a two-legged robot do a 3D sumers salt for the first time um there we in order to get enough rotation rate you needed to do tucking also”
Boston Dynamics designed new hydraulic control valves with novel circuit designs that performed computing functions integrated into the valve itself, making hydraulic systems much more efficient, smaller, and lighter than previously possible.
“our Engineers designed valves uh the ones that are in uh in Atlas for instance that had new kinds of circuits they sort of did some of the Computing that could get you much more efficient use they were much smaller and lighter so the whole robot could be smaller and lighter”
Hardware innovation remains important and necessary for robotics; people who believe hardware innovation is no longer needed are mistaken.
“I think having good Hardware is part of the story and people who think you don't need to innovate Hardware anymore are wrong in my opinion”
Boston Dynamics' earliest flipping experiments were performed with a planar robot (moving on a 2D surface restricted to a spherical boom) where the landing calculation was relatively simple: determining jump height to provide rotation time and ensuring feet land in correct positions with momentum dissipation.
“we did flips with a Hopping robot if you look at the first time we ever made a robot do a somersault it was in a planer robot you know it had a boom uh so it could only it was restricted to the surface of a sphere we call that planer so it could move for and half it could go up and down and it could rotate and so the calculation of what you need to do to get a to stick a landing isn't all that complicated”
Boston Dynamics developed an integrated hydraulic power supply about the size of a football weighing 5 kilograms that produces 5 kilowatts of power and incorporates motor, pump, filters, heat exchanger, and valves in a single compact package.
“we made a hydraulic power supply that had a bunch of components integrated this tiny package it's about this big you know the size of a football weighs five uh kilograms and it produces 5 uh kilowatts of power of course it has to have a battery operating but it's got a motor a pump filters heat exchanger to keep it cool some valves all of all in this tiny little package”
Sticking a landing after a flip is very difficult and is widely underrated as an engineering challenge because once in the air, the robot has much less control authority over what happens.
“how hard is it to stick a landing I mean it's very much underated like you once you've in the air you don't have as much control about anything”
Building robots that perform human-like movements contributes to scientific understanding of how humans actually move, since in the process of formalizing human movement as robot algorithms, engineers discover physical principles humans use implicitly.
“in some way by building robots you are in part understanding how humans do like walking most of us walk without considering how we walk really right and how we make it so natural and efficient all those kinds of things”
Current Boston Dynamics robots still do not walk as gracefully or naturally as humans, even though running performance is close to human speed and seems more natural than walking.
“still doesn't walk like a person and it still doesn't walk quite as gracefully as a person even though it's been getting closer and closer the running might be close to a human but the Walking is Still a challenge”
Russ Tedrake's work on stabilizing complicated robot maneuvers was made possible by his background as a champion gymnast before becoming an engineer, allowing him to translate physical intuition about how humans perform acrobatic maneuvers into mathematical algorithms.
“remember he was a gymnast a champion gymnast before he'd come to me so he had he had the physical abilities and he was a you know an engineer so he could translate some of that into the math and the algorithms that you need to to do that he knew how humans do it he just had to get robots to do the same”
Boston Dynamics' early organizational motto was 'you have to run before you can walk,' reflecting the strategy of developing running robots before perfecting walking robot technology.
“we used to have a motto at Boston Dynamics in the early days which was you have to run before you can walk uh that's a that's a good motto CU you also had wild cat which was one of the along the way towards spot which is a quadruped that went 19 M an hour right”
In 3D flips with a 2-legged robot, the mathematical and algorithmic calculation is fundamentally the same as planar flips, but must maintain balance in additional degrees of freedom beyond the primary somersault plane.
“to do it in 3D really the calculation is the same you just have to be balancing in the other degrees of freedom if you're just doing a somersault it's just a a planer thing”
WildCat was a quadruped robot that achieved speeds of 19 mph on flat terrain and was likely the fastest quadruped robot ever built.
“wild cat which was one of the along the way towards spot which is a quadruped that went 19 M an hour right on flat terrain is that the fastest you've ever built oh yeah might be the fastest quadruped in the world”
WildCat robot, powered by a small racing go-kart engine, was extremely loud, generating complaints from people three buildings away.
“it was probably the loudest too so we had this little racing go-kart engine on it and we would get people from you know three buildings away uh sending us you know complaining about how loud it”