Chris Hedges on his latest book, America: The Farewell Tour

Hope rooted in resistance and spiritual conviction—as exemplified by imprisoned students who study despite knowing they'll die in prison—is different from positive thinking or optimism; it emerges from tragic consciousness and faith in the power of human kindness to ultimately defeat evil.

“that is hope born out of a tragic out of the tragic and I can live off of that for a very long time does it change the world does it defy radical evil I mean you know vasily grossman this great work life and fate they do I finished it and which you should all read and it's about you know he has that passage that you know it's not a battle between good and evil it's a battle between a great evil trying to crush human kindness but if human kindness has not been crushed even now then evil will never win”

Resistance through documentation and bearing witness—even if it doesn't change outcomes—becomes the primary form of freedom and is enough; journalists covering war crimes in places like El Salvador, Kosovo, and Bosnia found euphoria in the act of resistance itself, not in expectations of stopping the violence.

“but that ability to document those crimes and recognize the destruction of those lives was enough we didn't think that we were going to stop it but it becomes in and that's why as you correctly pointed out it becomes in the act of resistance that you find freedom and not even freedom more than freedom hmm you find euphoria”

Marx viewed alienation as a positive force that would cause workers to question capitalism and hierarchy, but Durkheim understood anomie differently as creating lethargy, torpor, and loss of self-worth—a more accurate and dangerous description of contemporary pathology.

“Marx plays with a concept of alienation the Marx sees alienation as a positive force as something that will cause workers to question the means of production and the hierarchy of power and capitalism itself and leader but Durkheim looks at atomy differently and I think probably correctly because as he points out even like the hate groups people who seek to carry out violence are fundamentally driven by a desire for death and that atomy is creates a kind of lethargy a torpor a sense of a loss of self worth and self confidence”

NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was promised by Reagan not to occur beyond German borders; the expansion has continued as a 'billion-dollar industry' because defense contractors profit from reconfiguring old Soviet bloc militaries to NATO compatibility, exemplified by billboards from Raytheon in Poland.

“why are we expanding NATO to the Ukraine well because and and let's not forget that Reagan had promised Gorbachev that NATO would not be expanded beyond the German borders after the unification of Germany why because it's a billion-dollar industry I was just in Poland I got off the airport there's a giant billboard from Raytheon because if you have to reconfigure the old Soviet bloc military machine to make it compatible with NATO”

Effective resistance at Standing Rock was understood not as winning against the pipeline but as the spiritual-communal act of resistance itself, rooted in what Reinhold Niebuhr called 'sublime madness'—acting faithfully without expectation of success.

“Standing Rock was an important event for me and I write about it because it had the spiritual element that Chris is bringing out that I think is key and it's what Reinhold Niebuhr called sublime madness sublime madness of the soul and we have to stop asking ourselves if we will succeed”

Male average life expectancy on Pine Ridge reservation (South Dakota) is 48 years—the lowest in the Western Hemisphere outside of Haiti—demonstrating the systematic destruction of indigenous communities by corporate and state policy.

“Pine Ridge South Dakota were a male as average life expectancy of 48 that's the lowest in the Western Hemisphere outside of Haiti”

There is a deep spiritual sickness within society that powerful mechanisms have been created to prey upon and exacerbate, rooted in idolatry and the cult of the self, requiring theological and spiritual understanding to address.

“I think like Kierkegaard that there is a deep deep spiritual sickness within the society and that we have created powerful mechanisms to prey upon and to exacerbate hmm that sickness”

Trump feeds on legitimate disgust with the world that has been made for us, and is the closest thing to tipping the tables on Jeb Bush and the Clintons, even though he is on the wrong side and should not receive credit for disruption.

“at the same time he is feeding on the disgust with this world that we have made for ourselves... he is in some sense the captain of the angry people”

Friendship in its true form is about a relationship where the other person loves you enough to tell you unpleasant truths about yourself because they care—but in social media culture, friendship is replaced by posturing and self-presentation rather than truth and genuine connection.

“friendship and most of us if we're honest will acknowledge that we probably only have two or three real friends and some of us have none friendship is about a relationship where that person loves you enough to tell you the unpleasant truths about yourself you don't want to hear because they care”

Prisoners and incarcerated people are among the best students and readers, often transforming through education—they understand injustice intimately and are capable of sophisticated political analysis that challenges the official narratives.

“I teach as you know in a prison I've taught in ten years in a prison and I taught a course called conquest I've done it too it's an amazing education well I had there my best students I mean I have t.i teach through the BA program at Rutgers and I've taught at Princeton in Columbia and they are the best students I've ever taught”

When the dollar is no longer the world reserve currency, the U.S. cannot pay for empire because the dollar's artificial value depends on being reserve currency; if dropped, imports become extremely expensive and the empire must contract rapidly.

“the moment the dollar is no longer the reserve currency because that has an artificial value in essence because of that the moment that it is dropped then the empire has to contract because we can't pay for it nobody wants to buy Treasury bonds the value of the dollar drops imports become extremely expensive”

The Democratic Party does not want an examination of inverted totalitarianism or the corporate coup d'état because they largely orchestrated it, especially under Bill Clinton's presidency

“the Democratic Party does not want an examination of the system of inverted totalitarianism or the corporate coup d'etat that they largely orchestrated especially under the presidency of Bill Clinton”

The ruling ideology is created around the economic and political interests of the ruling elite, so neoliberalism as a utopian ideology claiming universal marketplace rule serves elite interests in concentrating power and wealth while appearing universal and inevitable

“what's happened is that the ruling ideology and David Harvey wrote a very fine book on this honor if you know it on neoliberalism but it's pretty smart right but it's out of this Marxian idea that every ideology is essentially created around the economic and political interests of the ruling elite so in this case neoliberalism which is a utopian as John Ralston Saul says a utopian ideology”

African Americans are the most politically astute class in America because they understand their structural interests, which is why they face systematic voter suppression from both Republican and Democratic parties.

“them as Pollan writes the most astute political class in America are African Americans they are the moat they are the one class that tends to actually understand what their interests are which is why they're all being a race from the voter rolls including by the Democratic Party”

The Attica uprising was suppressed because elite (Nixon, Rockefeller) feared it would trigger a Maoist rebellion; the Panthers' Black Power movement terrified the ruling class and led to incarceration of revolutionaries like Mumia Abu-Jamal, showing that radical consciousness is targeted for neutralization.

“they were terrified of the Black Power movement Nixon rockefeller you know actually on my phone you've heard them on the phone yeah yeah and they actually thought that the attic uprising was going to trigger a Maoist rebellion but that's why we still have Panthers Black Panther locked up I visit Mumia abu-jamal who's one of the great revolutionaries and intellectuals of our time”

Economic collapse and hyperinflation vomit up bizarre, buffoonish, insane political figures—as seen in Yugoslavia with Radovan Karadzic, Slobodan Milosevic, and Franjo Tudjman, and in Weimar Germany where the Nazis went from single-digit polling in 1928 to power after the 1929 crash.

“this is just like Yugoslavia which I covered for the New York Times so you have the economic you have an ineffectual liberal elite that is unable to deal with a economic unwilling or unable to do the economic meltdown of Yugoslavia and so of course there what triggered it was hyperinflation and you vomited up these these bizarre buffoonish insane figures Radovan Karadzic slobodan milosevic Franjo Tudjman”

The Iraq War was an illegal, immoral, irrational five-trillion-dollar (or more) war that the US chose to wage, chose to use torture, which ignited terrorism, and literally killed a country in front of our eyes—corrupting democratic opposition and destroying media institutions that endorsed it.

“an illegal immoral irrational five trillion dollar or maybe a lot more war that goes on today in which the United States chose war chose torture ignited terrorism and body tears and literally killed a country in front of our eyes corrupted the Democratic opposition including our friend John Kerry and destroyed the media”

Empires at their beginning use military force carefully and judiciously, but empires at the end in decline engage in catastrophic military adventurism that fuels further decline—as seen in the Athenian invasion of Sicily, the British-French invasion at Suez, and the current US wars.

“empires that they're beginning actually use military force very carefully and very judiciously empires at the end in decline engage in catastrophic military adventurism that fuels the decline in an attempt to restore a lost greatness so you look at for instance the end of the Athenian Empire they invade Sicily the entire Athenian fleet is sunk most of the soldiers are killed the Empire is over”

The Haitian slave revolt was the only successful slave revolt in human history, and Haiti is still paying for it—the country remains impoverished and destabilized as punishment for the act of liberation.

“CLR James's great work on the Haitian slave revolt black Jacobins the only successful slave revolt in human history in Haiti's still paying for it”

FDR understood that movements could force concessions from the capitalist class—he used the word 'revolution' in private correspondence, warning fellow oligarchs that they had to give something up or face revolution, resulting in 12 million jobs and Social Security.

“even Roosevelt and read his private correspondence and his letters to his brother he understood that those movements in as capitalism broke down could sweep away the whole thing he uses the word revolution and he says to the oligarchs his fellow oligarchs we've got to give up something or we'll get in quote-unquote revolution and so that's how you get 12 million jobs and Social Security”

The Clintons dismantled Jesse Jackson's Rainbow Coalition through coded racist language and law-and-order rhetoric, accelerating mass incarceration from 700,000 under Reagan to 2 million by the end of Clinton's presidency.

“Jesse Jackson's rainbow coalition was dismantled by the Clintons who were using coded racist language and you know 22 out law-and-order the Republicans Biden was a big factor in this so it was actually the Democrats that accelerated mass incarceration from about 700,000 under Clinton to by the time he was out two million”

In the global South and developing nations, the effects of climate change and resource wars are already visible, with Syria's war precipitated by massive drought and fighting over resources—the breakdown of US Empire will likely create multipolar world with increased resource conflict.

“it's a multipolar world I think we have to go back to climate change Christian Parenti wrote a good book on this a few years ago called tropic of chaos he wrote it out of Africa where or you know in the in the global South were already seen serious effects of climate change including the war in Syria it's precipitated by a massive drought”

Prison education programs and prisoner organizing are systematically repressed—when incarcerated students organized a strike in response to curriculum on radical movements, the state retaliated with strip searches, interrogations, solitary confinement, and removal to other prisons.

“I was in Montana and I said I'm not there this week I got a phone call my hotel room Montana they said this is the Special Investigations Division of the Department of Corrections of the state of New Jersey do you know your students just let us sit down strike in the prison hmm well I hung up the phone and I just broke down mmm because they knew better than I what would happen and it did happen every cell was strip-searched every student was interrogated”

The United States operates under inverted totalitarianism—a system with the facade of the late Roman Republic but internally the citizen has been utterly disempowered through a court system that has become a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporate state, overturning constitutional rights by judicial fiat.

“every level politically we live in a system Sheldon Wolin called inverted totalitarianism where you have the facade like the late Roman Republic but internally the citizen has been utterly disempowered we have a court system that has become a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporate state overturning our constitutional rights by judicial Fiat”

A commercial culture orchestrates alienation, loneliness, and unhappiness, then promises that investing financially and emotionally in that culture will provide the happiness it has destroyed—but each purchase only starts a cycle of new desires, a culture of idolatry where idols demand sacrifice of others first, then ultimately your own sacrifice.

“that's culture which we've created a commercial culture which orchestrates alienation loneliness unhappiness a sense of inadequacy and promises of us that if we invest in that culture both financially and personally which is a culture that at its core is about the cult of the self we can find the happiness that they have destroyed but of course as Proust understood every time we buy their experience whether just commercially or emotionally or their product it is only the starting point for new desires”

Working-class white Americans, who achieved post-WWII economic prosperity and believed the myth that the rules would reward hard work, are experiencing devastating rage upon realizing they've been deceived, manifesting in mass shootings, hate groups, and support for authoritarian figures.

“the white working-class which at a certain period especially after World War two achieved an economic prosperity that was kind of remarkable believe the myth and and and and with the understanding that that that they've been had I think Express a very frightening and violent rage which manifests itself in mass shootings hate groups and supporting a figure like Trump”

The liberal elite's role in capitalist democracy is to set moral parameters and discredit critics on the left while ensuring no one questions capitalism itself or the intentions of imperial wars—they play their role perfectly, which is why they remain in power despite being wrong.

“the role of the liberal elites is to discredit and you can read the review of this book in The New York Times The Washington Post because that's exactly what they do to discredit the critics on the left because they set the moral parameters and they are essentially given their place in a capitalist democracy because they make sure nobody crosses those parameters nobody actually questions the system of capitalism nobody questions the intentions of going into Iraq”

The Christian Right is the antecedent to current fascism; people fleeing real despair (divorces, sexual abuse, domestic abuse, addictions, evictions, underemployment, jail time) flee into crisis cults where they adopt magical thinking that rejects verifiable fact.

“I interviewed dozens and dozens of people who came out of lives of real desperation who were followers in these mega churches and I would spend a lot of time in the churches and I was at a pro-life weekend and and their despair was real and the first chapter is called despair”

In totalitarian systems where a permanent lie replaces discussion based on verifiable fact, it creates collective schizophrenia—unlike Bush or Clinton who lied but didn't deny facts, Trump and the Christian Right deny photographic evidence and verifiable reality itself.

“with Trump like the Christian Right verifiable fact and reality no longer matter you have the photographic evidence in front of you and Hannah arrant writes about this and she said that in any totalitarian system where the permanent why is replaces just any discuss and based on verifiable fact it creates a collective schizophrenia”

Mass incarceration is a form of social control for people whose bodies don't produce money for corporations on the streets but produce 50,000-60,000 dollars when caged—corporations like Global Tel Link, Mark J. Pay prey on incarcerated people through phone calls and services.

“of mass incarceration which is at once a form of social control for people who live in D industrialised pockets their bodies don't produce money for corporations on the streets of inner cities they produce fifty or sixty thousand dollars if you put them in a cage and all those corporations Global tel link are mark J pay they're all in there preying off of it”

Education in marginalized communities is systematically prevented through focus on vocational training (STEM) rather than liberal arts, deliberately keeping people ignorant of the power structures designed to destroy their lives.

“there's a conscious effort on the part of the corporate state to deny they always talk about stem you know it's all vocational to deny what I would call an education to the oppressed to hide the fact that these structures of power are designed to destroy their lives”

Evictions are weaponized to prevent community formation—when people are evicted every six months, they don't build relationships with neighbors or create stable communities, making collective resistance impossible.

“if if you have are evicted on the averages every six months in a poor community you can't build you finally the third or fourth time you're evicted you don't talk to your neighbors because you know you're gonna be evicted it's why they make it so unpleasant when you visit a prison”

The myth of human progress—that technology will save us and we will inevitably progress—is disempowering because it creates passive belief that solutions will arrive rather than requiring active resistance and change.

“the idea that we will progress inevitably and it's it's a disempowering myth because we all believe it so the belief that technology will save us is as specious as as climate change deniers”

Trump is symptomatic of multiple pathologies—populist speech, McCarthyism, consumerism, sexism, Pro Wrestling culture, 60 years of television and advertising, and an unregulated digital culture that has consumed the ability to read or think about anything else.

“he is totally symptomatic of a lot of different things he's symptomatic of populist speech McCarthyism grant looks consumerism gross sexism in person and in cultural monuments like Pro Wrestling he's a product of 60 years of television an advertising culture and a propaganda culture on crack”

Malcolm X's autobiography describes how he memorized the dictionary while imprisoned, transforming from illiteracy to literacy, which he described as like 'snow sliding off a roof'—he shed his past life and became a new man.

“everybody should go home and read Malcolm's chapter in the autobiography on his time it yeah I've taught in those classrooms he said he confronted the fact that he couldn't read a tabloid headline when he went in he memorized the dictionary and he said it was like snow sliding off a roof his past life he just shed it”

We live in a new geological epoch—the Anthropocene—where we are destroying the biosphere that made the Holocene (10,000 years of human civilization) possible, and this cannot be reversed; we cannot go backward, only respond creatively to a new system.

“we have now moved in the Anthropocene where we are destroying the biosphere that made this ten thousand year process possible... we can't go back to where we are and that's why you have so many theories about why we have never found intelligent quote-unquote intelligent life in the universe because in order to achieve the level that we've achieved it requires such an amount of energy that you end up destroying the biosphere”

Climate scientists fear going beyond 2 degrees Celsius because of feedback loops—as seen on Venus which used to have water but is now 800 degrees—once polar ice caps are gone, the system destroys itself through cascading feedback.

“and the reason climate scientists are so terrified of going beyond 2 degrees Celsius is because of feedback loops and they know what feedback loops are because they've studied them on Venus which used to have water and is now 800 degrees that you essentially your whole system begins to to destroy itself because of a series of you know at acidification in the ocean rising temperatures once the polar ice caps are gone”

The Holocene-enabling Gulf Stream may no longer exist; the theory of why we haven't found intelligent life in the universe is because achieving technological advancement requires energy levels that inevitably destroy the biosphere enabling that advancement, creating a universal filter.

“in order to achieve the level that we've achieved it requires such an amount of energy that you end up destroying the biosphere that makes the peculiar conditions this tiny window that made the our rise possible”

Sacco's father was a Presbyterian minister who was pushed out of the church for supporting LGBTQ rights and civil rights, but rather than comply, he held an Easter service celebrating LGBTQ marriage as a sacrament—choosing freedom and principle over career security.

“my father who was a Presbyterian minister... joined the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement and the gay rights movement for which the Presbyterian Church pushed him out... his answer to them was to hold an Easter service for the G BLT community... he said marriage is a sacrament it's not a reward for being a heterosexual”

We do not need individual leaders; we need movements that keep leaders in check through collective power, because power itself is always a poison regardless of who wields it.

“we don't need leaders we need movements even the best of lis power is a poison power is always dangerous no matter who wields it”

Vasily Grossman's 'Life and Fate' captures the essential truth: the struggle is not between good and evil but between great evil and human kindness; if human kindness is not crushed, evil can never win—this vision protects one emotionally and enables continued resistance.

“it's not a battle between good and evil it's a battle between a great evil trying to crush human kindness but if human kindness has not been crushed even now then evil will never win”

In Christian faith, resurrection describes the moment when one's identity is no longer dependent on institutional recognition; Scheer says 'it's my voice you hear but it's my father's words' and calls this resurrection.

“I didn't need the New York Times to tell me who I was I knew I would never be rewarded for virtue I knew the very institution that I invested my life in as he had would ultimately turn me away and I often say it's my voice you hear but it's my father's words and in the Christian faith we call that resurrection”

Daniel Berrigan defined faith as 'the belief that the good draws to it the good even if empirically everything around you says otherwise'—a Buddhist concept of karma where the good does draw to the good despite all evidence to the contrary.

“Daniel Berrigan once Tom asked at Daniel Berrigan how do you define faith he said it's the belief that the good draws to it the good hmm even if empirically everyone around everything around you says otherwise that's what faith is the Buddhists call it karma but you know what it's true the good does draw to it the good”

Hedges' best student in prison was a 14-year-old picked up on streets of Camden whose stepfather beat his mother to death in front of him; he couldn't read or write, signed a confession he didn't understand, was tried as an adult, and is ineligible for parole until age 70; he told Hedges: 'I know I'm gonna die in this prison but I study as hard as I do because some day I'm gonna be a teacher like you.'

“my best student my only a-plus was picked up in the streets of Camden when he was 14 years old he was father his stepfather had beat his mother to death in front of him he was literally couldn't read or write he's on the streets he's dragged into a police station the cops don't investigate murders anymore they just grab somebody he was grabbed he's crying he can't just sign just signed a sign he signs he's tried as an adult he's 14 he's tried as an adult he's not eligible to go before a parole board until he's 70 years old he's 39 the bell goes off it's the last day of class and you got to get in the hall quick or you get a charge he waits till everyone's out of the classroom and he walks up to me and he said I know I'm gonna die in this prison hmm but I study as hard as I do because some day I'm gonna be a teacher like you”

The New York Times, Washington Post, and New Yorker magazine endorsed the Iraq War, and now claim to be defenders of truth and democracy—yet they are still in positions of power shaping discourse despite their massive credibility failure.

“every yeah the New York Times Washington Post in The New Yorker magazine all endorsed that war I was the New York Times now says it is the refuge for truth capital T Washington Post says democracy dies in darkness the war began and and went to its end with the cheerleading of those those institutions”

The fracking industry—a massive money-loser with 280 billion invested—is the next bubble like dot-com, based on projected profits rather than actual returns, funded at nearly 0% interest by the Fed.

“The Times had a story I guess a couple weeks ago in the Week in Review about the next dot-com bubble being the fracking industry because like the dot-com industry the fracking industry is based on projected profits not actual fracking in fact as a huge money loser the 280 billion have been invested in fracking”

Banks were given 26 trillion dollars by the Federal Reserve since the 2008 crash but have not reinvested in the real economy; instead they've used it for stock buybacks and hoarding, while the population bears the consequences through debt peonage.

“according to University of Missouri their estimate twenty six trillion dollars trillion and what have they done with it they haven't as China did rebuild the infrastructure and create jobs invest in the real economy they have taken that money and used it to buy back their own stock because of their competence”

We have very short lifespans on a planet 4.5 billion years old, and the ironic point of light that flashes out wherever the just exchange their messages calls us to show an affirming flame, as Auden wrote, making resistance an end in itself not conditional on success

“we have very short lifespans on a planet that's 4.5 billion years old and it is that orden line the ironic point of light that flashes out wherever the just exchange their messages may I compose like them of arrows and of dust beleaguered by the same negation and despair despair show an affirming flame”

Neoliberalism is a utopian ideology claiming that every society throughout history should be ruled by marketplace dictates—an insane position, and all its promises (larger middle class, spread of democracy, end of wars) have proven false.

“neoliberalism which is a utopian as John Ralston Saul says a utopian ideology the whole idea that any society throughout history has decided that every aspect of that society should be ruled by the dictates of the marketplace is insane but this ideology and every promise of course of neoliberalism which Thomas Friedman popularizes in his columns has turned out to be wrong”

Those in control are blinded by mania for profit and idolatry of the cult of self, unable to see that their own actions are destroying the biosphere that makes their wealth possible.

“we're not responding because the people who have total control are blinded by a mania for profit by idols by the cult of the self”

Steve Pinker's claim that violence is declining is an imperial fantasy—a presumption from the pinnacle of power at a named chair professor at Harvard in the imperial nation telling the world that everything is getting better while the world experiences ongoing wars, exploitation, and structural violence.

“I think it is an imperial fantasy I'm not sure I'd call it fiction but to be telling the world from the pinnacle of a name chair professor at Harvard in the Imperial nation that the world is getting better and better and better you just hadn't noticed it there's a kind of presumption”

Because our movements have been destroyed and our democratic institutions don't work, when financial crisis and dollar devaluation occur, totalitarian movements will emerge because there is no organized alternative.

“because we are because our movements have been destroyed our press has been corroded our democratic institutions don't work then I worry that we will the monsters will really come out here”

Structural racism makes it nearly impossible to make a living in the legal economy for African Americans, yet the system blames individuals for their decisions to survive outside legal means—this internalized blame prevents consciousness of structural oppression.

“the structural racism which is so pronounced as to make it as you know from Detroit almost impossible to make a living in the legal economy has effectively sold a lot of these people this idea that it's your fault you made mistakes”

The Powell Memo of 1971 was the beginning of coordinated destruction of movements—corporations organized systematically to dismantle unions, press freedom, and universities, turning them into vocational corporations.

“they have destroyed our movements quite especially starting in 1971 with a Powell memo”

Nixon and Kissinger were terrified of the anti-war movement—they surrounded the White House with empty buses as a barrier against 10,000s of anti-war demonstrators, expecting them to break through and capture the president.

“there's a moment in Kissinger's memoirs don't buy the book where it's 1971 there are tens of thousands of anti-war demonstrators Kissinger or Nixon has put empty city buses in a ring around the White House and he's looking out the window going Henry they're going to break through the barricades and get us”

The Communist Party was a powerful and important political force in pushing FDR to concessions, yet it has been written out of American history.

“the old CIO the Progressive Party the Communist Party which we've kind of written out of our history but was a powerful and important political force”

Sheldon Wolin's 'Politics and Vision' is a serious book examining Western political philosophy through Marx, Nietzsche, Rawls and others; Hedges taught it in prison and students said 'we waited all semester for Marx and it's over'—indicating that incarcerated people hunger for radical theory.

“I taught Sheldon Wolens politics and vision in the bridge well yeah which is a pretty serious book but I remember after that class I just have to a little anecdote about my students so you know I don't know if you know the book it's a classic it's brilliant brilliant but he looks at a Western culture through the lens of various philosophical systems marx nietzsche block Rawls everybody so I did my chapter on Marx and there was this long silence and one of the students goes ah we waited all semester for Marx and it's over”

Young people now growing up with tablets and digital technology like Bitcoin need engagement that prevents them from following the same patterns of those empowered before them and allows them to resist corporate control of technology.

“how do we engage young people who are growing up you know on tablets on you know with Bitcoin and all these new things happening like how do we engage them and they are potential and keep it from just following the same patterns of the people who were empowered like controlling how technology impacts society”

Most existential issues that face us—climate change, ecosystem collapse, nuclear weapons—are not even articulated on commercial airwaves (including PBS and NPR), making it extremely dangerous that mass communication doesn't name the real threats.

“because of the corrosion of our systems of mass communication including I think you would agree on PBS and NPR the most important existential issues that face us are not even articulated and that's extremely dangerous”

Military adventurism is so costly that it hollows the country from inside—roads are not maintained, public libraries close, schools are destroyed, and the crown jewel of American democracy (public schools) is being systematically dismantled.

“is to just hollow out the country from the inside so through Citadis writes that the tyranny that athens imposed on others it finally imposed on itself why because the military adventurism is so costly your roads are not maintained your public libraries our school your your you know the crown jewel of American democracy is our public school system and we are watching it be destroyed”

Western elites and intellectuals did not truly critique or oppose the Iraq War despite its illegality and immorality; the New York Times fired Hedges for criticizing it, and Bill Moyers pressured him not to use the word 'fascist' in his book on the Christian Right.

“I was the New York Times now says it is the refuge for truth capital T Washington Post says democracy dies in darkness the war began and and went to its end with the cheerleading of those those institutions including your friend Tom Friedman William Safire the David and they're still working”

Bill Clinton betrayed the working class by passing NAFTA, which closed union manufacturing plants in places like Anderson, Indiana—not just closing them but bulldozing them so that workers couldn't even drive past—moving jobs to Mexico where workers earned $3/hour without benefits compared to $25-30/hour with union benefits.

“in Anderson Indiana the old GM yep 25,000 Union jobs they were making 25 $30 an hour they had pensions they had medical benefits they had a strong union and so Clinton passes NAFTA and GM they didn't just close the plants they bulldoze them so they're huge grass choked expanses were these plant mean the old UAW workers they can't even spend 30 years they can't even drive they won't even they will bypass those streets so they don't have to look at it”

94 percent of people in the prison system never had a jury trial, and those who went to trial receive longer sentences than those who took plea deals because the system must make examples of those who challenge it—the entire system depends on plea deals.

“the courts 94 percent of the people in prison never had a jury trial and the students I teach were the longest sentences are the ones who went to trial and they make and they did not cover that unfortunately they trusted the system but the system makes an example of them because as Michelle Alexander points out if everyone went to trial the system would crash it's built on plea deals”

Tolstoy understood that the only true happiness is to live for others, which parents instinctively know, making Victor Hugo's 'Les Misérables' a masterwork that captures this truth and was Eugene V. Debs' favorite book, which he read repeatedly in French.

“Tolstoy got it right the only true happiness is to live for others as any parent instinctively under not knows I just taught Victor Hugo's lay mazhab in a prison oh the book it's a yeah II thought it was number one even yeah even well you know it was Eugen V Debs his favorite book hmm which he read in French over and over”

Hedges spent time with hate groups including the Proud Boys, Three Percenters, and Alt-Right members around a bonfire near Binghamton New York, observing that while terrifying, this fieldwork is essential because it challenges assumptions and forces the right questions

“I also spend a lot of time with hate groups including at one point I was outside of Binghamton New York at night around a bonfire in the woods with the proud boys nights the alt-right the three percenters praying to my presbyterian God that no one would Google me and heroin addicts so I I mean like Durkheim like Dubois I saw out these people I I loved reporting as I know Chris does because it always chalant not only challenges but often overturns your assumptions about what you think you know forces you to ask questions that if you weren't out there listening to these people you wouldn't even know how to formulate”

Ralph Nader and the speaker are not truly radicals in the traditional sense but conservatives, because what they call for is the restoration of the rule of law which has been completely abandoned

“I once said Ralph Nader who I like very much said you know you and I are not really radicals in the in the traditional sense of political life we are conservatives because what we are really calling for is the restoration of the rule of law which has been completely abandoned”

Dietrich Bonhoeffer's description of Western nothingness as rebellious, violent, anti-God and anti-human, a creative nothingness that blows an anti-God breath into all that exists, captures the spiritual malaise of contemporary culture

“then this nothingness into which the West is sliding is not the natural end the dying the sinking of a flourishing community of people instead it is again a specifically Western nothingness and nothing that is nothingness that is rebellious violent anti-god an anti-human breaking away from all that is established it is the utmost manifestation of all the forces opposed to God it is a nothingness as God no one knows its goal or its moment its rule is absolute it is a creative nothingness that blows in anti-god breath it blows an anti-god breath into all that exists”

Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago, particularly the final volume on resistance in gulags, shows that resistance movements don't need to succeed to matter—the invisible witness of people maintaining humanity and integrity in the face of crushing power itself constitutes a victory

“read Solzhenitsyn The Gulag Archipelago and don't get the abridged the last volume is on resistance resistance in the gulags and they don't do they succeed I mean they're crushed and yet it is that power of an invisible witness”

Prison students expressed loneliness and inability to talk; they can't communicate even within the prison system because constant surveillance and the threat of being written up for infraction prevents genuine relationship.

“you know we can't talk anymore to our we're lonely we can't and I think that that there's there's a conscious effort on the part of the corporate state to deny”

The U.S. is still at war in Afghanistan 17 years after invasion; the Taliban controls more territory than when the U.S. entered, yet the wars continue because defense contractors (Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Halliburton) are profiting enormously—perpetual war is driven by the primacy of profit over rationality.

“why are we still at war in Afghanistan the Taliban controls more territory in Afghanistan than when we went in 17 years ago why because Northrop Grumman and Raytheon Halliburton they're making a fortune it's it's propelled forward by the primacy of profit at the expense of everything else”

CNN is equally culpable with Trump for the political circus—CNN makes more money covering Trump's antics than it has ever made, so it continues cheerleading court gossip rather than actual journalism that reflects majority concerns.

“CNN is as culpable for the burlesque as Trump and they make an FIR and they make money on it they made more money last year than they've ever made but it's all court gossip it's not news there's no journalism anymore”

Cities like Scranton are facing insolvency and selling off municipal assets—sewer systems, parking authorities, utilities—in desperate attempts to stay solvent, but once assets are gone, there's nothing left to sell.

“they're selling off municipal assets their pension funds have dropped 40 percent because of the crash of 2008 and so they're selling off their sewer system their parking authority of their utilities in a desperate effort to stay solvent but then they don't have anything left to sell”

Hedges conducted fieldwork in the largest BDSM operation ostensibly in the world (kink.com in San Francisco), a live-stream torture site, and found that sexual sadism ripples through society as a poisonous undercurrent reflecting cultural decay

“I wrote my chapter on sexual sadism which is always a part of a decayed culture out of San Francisco kink.com this is the largest BDSM operation ostensibly in the world it's live stream I mean I took classes there it was really bizarre I was in a basement with Dom's so there's a bunch of dweeby guys dressed in black and me and my tape recorder on my pocket but it's torture and they they waterboard and they actually use the word torture I mean this ripples like a very poisonous undercurrent this porn ofin within our society”