Trump's co-conspirators get NIGHTMARE news in DC court
What this covers
Legal Breakdown episode 388: @GlennKirschner2 discusses the legal exposure of Trump's co-conspirators in the DC prosecution.
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Jack Smith's unsealing of a 165-page motion identifying 77 people and multiple co-conspirators in the January 6th conspiracy strongly signals that additional federal indictments against Trump's associates are forthcoming, likely after the 2024 election, because prosecutors would not publicly document co-conspirator crimes without intending to prosecute them.
- Jack Smith explicitly designated multiple co-conspirators (CC1-CC6) by conduct rather than name, creating legal exposure for Giuliani, Eastman, Powell, Chesebro, and others
- The scale and specificity of the filing (77 people, 165 pages) makes it implausible that Smith would document conspiracy crimes without follow-up prosecutions
- Watergate precedent shows large-scale political conspiracies produce 40+ indictments; Trump crimes are more severe than Watergate, suggesting comparable or larger prosecution wave
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The unsealed 165-page motion filed by Jack Smith against Donald Trump identifies 77 people involved in the conspiracy, including multiple co-conspirators who are designated by conduct and can be identified by their actions described in the filing.
“we've seen that there are so many other people involved in this conspiracy uh started with Donald Trump and filtered down to all of his co-conspirators we've mentioned that there are 77 people listed in this filing”
The filing designates some individuals with 'P' designations (P1-P77) rather than co-conspirator designations, and many of these P-designated individuals are witnesses or victims rather than co-conspirators, including election workers Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss (P29-P30) who were defamed by Rudy Giuliani.
“when you look at this Mega brief that was just filed by Jack Smith as you say there are 77 people designated some are CC1 cc2 the co-conspirators some are P1 P2 P3 all the way up to p77 importantly there are lots of people who are designated as p and a particular number that did nothing wrong in fact some of them are victims let me give you an example p29 and P30 those are sheos and Ruby Freeman the Georgia state election workers that Rudy Giuliani Savaged in his you know uh unyielding defamation of them endangering the lives of those two women by lying about them and saying they were involved in you know stuffing ballot boxes which they weren't”
Jack Smith pursued an aggressive timeline strategy in the DC case to try to get Donald Trump to trial quickly, but the Supreme Court's grant of certiorari on the presidential immunity question halted the proceedings, creating delay while immunity litigation continues.
“it seems like Jack Smith wanted to build his prosecution in DC for Speed move move against Donald Trump try to get it to trial of course the Supreme Court had had other ideas and decided to bring the whole thing to a grinding halt so they can litigate this absolute immunity or qualified immunity that the Supreme Court made up out of whole cloth indeed contrary to the very language of the Constitution”
Adding multiple co-defendants to a single trial significantly slows the trial process because defense teams must coordinate on scheduling for briefings, hearings, and trial dates, and managing many separate defense counsel creates substantial logistical complexity.
“the more Co conspirators and codefendants you add to the trial it tends to slow down the trial it bogs down the trial now you have to coordinate so many schedules for purposes of briefings and setting hearings and setting trial dates because now you have defense team after defense team after defense team joining the mix”
The co-conspirators identified in the motion include Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman, Sidney Powell, Kenneth Chesebro, and Mike Roman, who are designated as CC1, CC2, etc., and though not formally named, can be identified based on the specific conduct described for each in the filing.
“people like Rudy Giuliani uh je people like Rudy Giuliani John Eastman cydney Powell Kenneth chesbro Mike Roman and perhaps others these people are designated as CC1 cc2 co-conspirator now they're not named but based on what they are um said to have done in the motion you can see you can tell who they are right”
Under evidence rules, the verdict in one trial is not admissible in a subsequent trial, so even if Trump is convicted, that verdict cannot be introduced as evidence against his co-conspirators; each defendant is entitled to their own jury determination based on evidence presented in their specific trial.
“there's an important principle that the result in any one trial is not admissible you can't introduce evidence for example let's let's assume Donald Trump goes to trial and gets convicted and now all of his co-conspirators his cruddy lawyers Rudy Giuliani John Eastman cydney Powell and the rest of them go to trial in a second subsequent trial you're not allowed to tell that second jury that well the the top dog conspirator the deao mob boss Donald Trump was convicted by another jury that's not admissible each jury people those people are owed their own due process well yes each Jury has to make its own determination based on the evidence introduced in that trial without resort to what happened in any other trial or what what verdicts other juries reached”
The fact that 77 people are designated in the Jack Smith filing means that all of them now have legal exposure for criminal conspiracy because under conspiracy law, a single crime committed by any one person in a conspiracy implicates all members of the conspiracy.
“there is a lot lot of legal exposure among all of these people um and uh I know that we haven't heard the last of this so uh for those watching right now if you want to continue to follow along with this process as it plays out and as these uh people not just Donald Trump but the rest of his co-conspirators face Justice in the legal system”
Rudy Giuliani engaged in defamation against election workers Shaye Moss and Ruby Freeman by falsely claiming they were involved in ballot stuffing, endangering their lives through these false statements.
“Rudy Giuliani Savaged in his you know uh unyielding defamation of them endangering the lives of those two women by lying about them and saying they were involved in you know stuffing ballot boxes which they weren't”
The Supreme Court invented a doctrine of absolute immunity or qualified immunity for presidents that has no basis in the Constitution and is contrary to the explicit language of the Constitution.
“the Supreme Court had had other ideas and decided to bring the whole thing to a grinding halt so they can litigate this absolute immunity or qualified immunity that the Supreme Court made up out of whole cloth indeed contrary to the very language of the Constitution”
Jack Smith would not include 77 people and detailed descriptions of co-conspirator conduct in a 165-page indictment filing without intending to charge those co-conspirators, because doing so would announce crimes without prosecuting them, which would be inconsistent with prosecutorial practice and purpose.
“I cannot Envision a world Brian where Jack Smith puts in an indictment and then puts in this Mega brief 165 pages that there are co-conspirators who helped Donald Trump commit crimes to try to retain the power of the presidency contrary to the expressed will of the American voters people like Rudy Giuliani uh je people like Rudy Giuliani John Eastman cydney Powell Kenneth chesbro Mike Roman and perhaps others these people are designated as CC1 cc2 co-conspirator now they're not named but based on what they are um said to have done in the motion you can see you can tell who they are right so the question becomes is there any world in which Jack Smith would announce that these people committed crimes together with Donald Trump to try to in a re very real sense bring an end to American democracy but I'm not going to charge them I'm not going to hold them accountable I'm going to give them a pass I don't see that happening not from a guy like Jack Smith and his team of prosecutors”
The Watergate scandal produced 69 indictments and 48 convictions over several years, and Watergate involved crimes (a second-rate burglary and coverup) that are far less severe than the democracy-subverting conspiracy crimes of which Trump and his lawyers are accused, suggesting the Trump conspiracy will generate comparable or larger scale prosecutions.
“Watergate produced 69 indictments and 48 convictions and it took several years to come to fruition and the crimes in Watergate a second rate burglary and a modest coverup at least modest by you know uh Donald Trump standards that looks like a shoplifting charge as compared to the Democracy busting crimes of Donald Trump and his cadr of dirty lawyers”
Steve Bannon is identified as P1 in the Jack Smith motion and is identified by specific conduct as a co-conspirator in Trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election, making it very difficult to see how he would not become a co-conspirator in future federal indictments.
“after Jack Smith moves on from co-conspirator 1 co-conspirator 2 co-conspirator 3 in his motion he then identif if I P1 by substance and it is Steve Bannon I find it very hard to believe when I read what Steve Bannon did in concert with Donald Trump and others to try to overturn the results of the 2020 election hard to see how he doesn't become a co-conspirator in future federal indictments”
Additional federal indictments against Trump's co-conspirators are likely to be brought after the 2024 election rather than before it, with potential timeline of late November into December when federal indictments could drop.
“it seems to me now that it looks like we'll be pushed well well beyond the election before anything else of substance happens in Donald Trump's case it wouldn't surprise me at all if come late November into December we start seeing federal indictments dropping early and often including of some of the co-conspirators that are identified in substance in the indictment and in this later pleading”
Glenn Kirschner tried a six-defendant RICO case with 11 total criminal defense attorneys representing the defendants, which took six months of continuous daily trial and involved a criminal organization that killed 31 people and controlled drug traffic in Washington DC.
“I did a six codefendant Rico trial with a total of 11 criminal defense attorneys representing those six defendants that took us six months to try we were in court every day for 6 months and that was a slog it was important and you know it was very rewarding work and this was a criminal organization that killed 31 people over the course of about eight or 10 years in Washington DC and controlled all of the drug traffic in the city”
Justice delayed is justice denied, but the strategic priority of preventing a criminally-minded former president from retaking power justifies post-election timing of prosecutions rather than pre-election, because allowing him to regain governmental power could spell the end of American democracy.
“Justice delayed is Justice denied and I wish we had wrapped up some of these trials years ago but I think once we're past the election um it won't be as important to get everything pushed through quickly because the last thing you want to do is have somebody who's running for the presidency um who tried to criminally retain the power of the presidency previously you know you don't want him to retake the Reigns of governmental power because it could and this would s this will sound like hyperbole but it's not it could spell the end of American democracy right”
After the 2024 election, Jack Smith might pursue a superseding indictment that batches all co-conspirators and co-defendants together with Trump in a single document, because at that point time is no longer of the essence and the strategic urgency to move quickly is reduced.
“what you might see after the election is over you could very well see a superseding indictment that now includes all of the co-conspirators and co-defendants including Donald Trump they may be all batched together because at that point you know time is not really of the essence”
The conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election was an attempt to bring an end to American democracy by retaining presidential power contrary to the expressed will of the American voters.
“co-conspirators who helped Donald Trump commit crimes to try to retain the power of the presidency contrary to the expressed will of the American voters people like Rudy Giuliani uh je people like Rudy Giuliani John Eastman cydney Powell Kenneth chesbro Mike Roman and perhaps others these people are designated as CC1 cc2 co-conspirator now they're not named but based on what they are um said to have done in the motion you can see you can tell who they are right so the question becomes is there any world in which Jack Smith would announce that these people committed crimes together with Donald Trump to try to in a re very real sense bring an end to American democracy”
Jack Smith's team of prosecutors consists of high-quality and committed prosecutors who would not allow co-conspirator crimes to go unprosecuted once they have publicly documented them.
“I don't see that happening not from a guy like Jack Smith and his team of prosecutors”