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Unlock your potential with Mindvalley. Start your free 7 day trial https://go.mindvalley.com/JEk8Suyq. Steven Kotler, author of Mindvalley's 'The Habit of Ferocity' talks at A-Fest Jamaica about flow and how it can create peak performers.
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Flow states are definable, measurable, and trainable psychological phenomena that enable paradigm-shifting breakthroughs across all domains; understanding their neurobiological mechanisms and triggers allows individuals and organizations to achieve impossible goals by hacking attention into the present moment.
- Flow is a signature of ultimate human performance across sports, business, science, and arts—empirically validated with 5x productivity gains (McKinsey) and 470% learning rate increases (U.S. military studies)
- Flow operates through transient hypofrontality—selective brain deactivation that eliminates self-doubt, anxiety, and past/future time perception, creating high-speed creative decision-making
- Flow triggers (20 total: autonomy, clear goals, risk, novelty, etc.) are eminently trainable; a 6-week intervention at Google produced 35-80% increases in flow, suggesting individuals can systematically access these states
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The 10% brain myth—that we use only 10% of our brains and flow involves the full brain on overdrive—is exactly backwards; in flow we use less of the brain, not more, through a process called transient hypofrontality.
“In flow, we're not using more of the brain, we're actually using less of the brain. The technical term for this is transient. Meaning temporary, hypofrontality hypo is h-y-p-o. It's the opposite of hyper. Means to slow down, to shut down, to deactivate. And frontality is the prefrontal cortex, right? The part of your brain that's right back here.”
The 'Banister Effect' is an extremely tight coupling between mind and body: you must believe you are capable of achieving the impossible before you can actually achieve the impossible—there is no other way around it.
“The physical challenge, which took us forever 70 years to get to, it didn't change right? Running a sub four minute mile still requires running a sub four mile. All that changed is the frame, the mental frame, we built around the task. What used to be impossible, we suddenly viewed as possible and that somehow made it a whole lot more possible. This is known to researchers as the Banister Effect. And what it really is, is an extremely tight coupling between the mind and the body, right? You have to believe you are capable of achieving the impossible, before you can actually achieve the impossible. There's just no other way around it.”
Amazon's CEO Jeff Bezos institutionalized the 'institutional yes' policy: anyone wanting to say no to an idea must write a two-page paper posted on the internal company website explaining why, making it very hard and driving group flow in the organization.
“Now at Amazon, group flow is so important to Jeff Bezos, and it is so easy for managers in big organizations to say no to ideas, that Jeff has institutionalized a yes. He has a policy called the institutional yes. Which is, at Amazon, if you want to say no to an idea, somebody brings you an idea and you want to say no to it, you can't just say, no. You also have to write a two page paper and post it on the internal company website, telling people why you're saying no, not easy. They make it very hard. Drives a lot of flow at that company.”
In flow, the brain releases five of the most potent neurochemicals that the brain can produce; these neurochemicals amplify physical performance (increased strength, deadened pain, amplified muscle reaction time) and impact cognitive function across motivation, creativity, and learning.
“Now all five of them amplify performance, they boost physical performance. They will do everything from increased strength to deaden pain, to amplify muscle reaction time. More importantly, they impact cognitive function. And if you really want to understand how Flow can help us do the impossible, you need to understand how the state impacts the three sides of the high performance triangle. And more specifically, how these five neurochemicals impact the three sides of the high-performance triangle and that's motivation, creativity and learning.”
Until 1997, when University of Washington neuroscientist Jaak Panksepp traced the six primary emotional pathways in mammals, emotions were not a serious topic for science; you could talk about fear but not wisdom or empathy—these were considered laughable concepts.
“So, until 1997, when a University of Washington neuroscientist named Jaak Panksepp, traced the six primary emotional pathways in mammals, emotions were not really a serious topic for science. I know that sounds crazy, but you could not really talk. You could talk about fear maybe, but you could not talk about things like wisdom or empathy. These were laughable concepts until 1997, until we figured out where they were coming from.”
The prefrontal cortex handles complex logical decision-making, long-term planning, morality, and willpower; in flow, this portion of the brain shuts down through an efficiency exchange where the brain trades energy for attention, deactivating noncritical structures.
“It handles complex logical decision making. It handles longterm planning. Your sense of morality comes from here. Your sense of willpower. In flow, this portion of the brain shuts down. It's actually an efficiency exchange. The brain is trading energy it needs for attention and it's shutting down noncritical structures.”
McKinsey, the global consultancy, conducted a 10-year study finding that top executives in flow are five times (500%) more productive than those out of flow, meaning they could take Tuesday through Friday off and still get as much done as steady-state peers.
“So McKinsey, the global consultancy, did a 10 year study and they found that top executives in flow are five times more productive than out of flow. Five times more productive is 500% more productive. Means you could go to work on Monday, take Tuesday through Friday off and get as much done as your steady state peers.”
Surfing progressed from a maximum wave height of 25 feet (considered physically impossible) from 480 AD until 1996, to surfers routinely pulling into waves over 100 feet tall within less than two decades—a breakthrough enabled by changed mental frames rather than changes in physics.
“Surfing is a very old sport. Dates back to 480 AD. And from 480 AD until 1996, progress was really slow, incremental at best. 25 feet was the biggest wave anybody had ever surfed. And above that everybody believed it was impossible. They were physics papers written about how it's impossible to paddle into a wave over 25 feet and possible a surfer wave over 25 feet. As you can see from this photo today, less than two decades later, surfers are routinely pulling into waves over a hundred feet tall.”
Montessori education is extremely high-flow education; Montessori students show accelerated learning and amplified creativity, outperforming other children on every test (intellectual, social skills, etc.) because it is built around three flow triggers: autonomy, uninterrupted concentration, and deep embodiment.
“So, 10 years, 15 years ago, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and a University of Utah researcher named Kevin Rathunde, went looking for the highest flow arenas they could find, that weren't in action sports. And one of the things they discovered was Montessori education. Montessori education is extremely high flow education. And that's one of the reasons the accelerated learning and the amplified creativity that Montessori kids, tend to outperform other children at the same age on every single test you can give them. From intellectual tests, to social skills, doesn't matter. Montessori education is built around three important flow triggers.”
Even four days of focus meditation is enough to start enhancing cognitive function; researchers have compressed meditation training time from 30 years to 6 weeks to 4 days.
“One of the other cool things, side note, just interestingly, six weeks is a healthy amount of time. What we've discovered by the way is that even four days of meditation, just four days of focus meditation, is enough to start to enhance cognitive function. We've shrunk it down from 30 years into four days.”
In brainstorming sessions, one of the most potent group flow triggers comes from improv comedy and is the practice of always saying 'yes'—ideas must be additive and lead somewhere, rather than being rejected, and critique must be positive and moving forward when it does happen.
“So in group flow, one of the most potent of group flows triggers comes from improv comedy. And it's the idea that you always say yes...In brainstorming sessions, right? This means ideas have to be additive, they have to lead somewhere. It doesn't mean by the way, you can't critique other people's ideas. You absolutely can, but it still has to be positive and moving forward when you do.”
Action adventure sports athletes from the 1980s-1990s, despite coming from destroyed homes and minimal education, were regularly reinventing kinesthetic possibility for the human species on a consistent basis.
“back in the early 1990s, action adventure sports was a punk rock pastime practiced by rowdy irreverent people without a lot of natural advantages. So most of the people I spent my time with, they had very, very little education. They had almost no money and the vast majority of people I knew came from horrifically difficult childhoods. Destroyed homes, not just broken homes, destroyed homes. And yet here they were, on a regular basis reinventing what was possible for our species”
Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) artificially induces flow by shooting a weak magnetic pulse through the prefrontal cortex, lasting 20-40 minutes; in a University of Sydney study, TMS increased solution rates on the nine-dot problem from less than 5% (control) to 43% (TMS group), revealing flow's creative power.
“So this is transcranial magnetic stimulation. Essentially it's a radar operator for the U.S Air Force and she shot a weak magnetic pulse through her prefrontal cortex. In artificially induced flow, is what it's called. Lasts for about 20 to 40 minutes. Now, to give you an idea of how powerful this was, they did this crazy study at the University of Sydney, where they took 46 people and they gave them the nine dot problem to solve, right. Connect, four, excuse me. Connect nine dots with four lines without taking your pencil off the paper in 10 minutes or less. Very complex creative problem solving challenge. Requires a lot of pattern recognition, a lot of thinking. Under normal conditions, less than 5% of people can solve it. In the original study group, nobody solved it. Then they took a different group of 46 people, they gave them transcranial magnetic stimulation. They knocked out the prefrontal cortex. They amplified pattern recognition and creative problem solving, 43% of the people solved the problem in record time.”
Flow is definable and measurable because it has seven core characteristics including uninterrupted concentration in the present moment, vanishing of self, and time dilation, and researchers have developed extremely well-validated psychometric instruments to measure flow.
“The first thing he discovered, is that flow is definable. It has seven core characteristics. And I listed some of them for you a second ago. Uninterrupted concentration in the present moment, vanishing of self, time dilation and so forth. And because it is definable, it is measurable. So we have extremely well validated psychometric instruments to measure flow at this point.”
Research consistently shows that flow can cut Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000-hour rule for mastery in half, reducing it to 5,000 hours.
“Put this in different contexts. We've all heard about Malcolm Gladwell's fable, 10,000 hours to mastery. What the research consistently shows is that flow can cut those in half.”
Roger Banister ran the world's first four-minute mile in 3:59.4 seconds; until 1996 this was considered physically impossible, with medical doctors writing op-eds in the New York Times saying people would need a hearse waiting. After Banister's record, someone broke it within a month, and within 10 years teenagers had broken it—showing the physical challenge didn't change, only the mental frame.
“So that is the amount of time it took Roger Banister to run the world's first four minute mile, all right. And when he did this, it was an absolute impossible. In fact, there were op-eds in the New York Times written by doctors who said, you know, besides having a ticker tape parade, waiting for Banister at the finish line, we're going to need a hearse. So people thought it was going to kill him. It also took forever to run this first four minute mile. If you look at mile times, they dropped about a quarter second, quarter second a decade for 60, 70 years leading up to it. But Roger Banister runs the first four minute mile. And then a month later, somebody breaks his record. Couple months later, somebody else breaks his record. In fact, within 10 years, teenagers had broken that record.”
Teresa Amabile at Harvard discovered that the heightened creativity from flow can outlast the flow state by a day, sometimes two, suggesting that flow trains the brain to think more creatively not just in the moment but over time and in the long haul.
“Even cooler, Teresa Amabile at Harvard discovered that that heightened creativity, it can outlast the flow state by a day, sometimes two. And what does that suggest, and there's more research that needs to be done and we're actually running a big study right now to try to poke at this a little bit more. But it suggests that flow doesn't just train the brain to be more creative in the moment, it actually trains the brain to think more creatively over time, over the long haul.”
When sense of self disappears in flow, the inner critic—the nagging, always-on, defeatist voice in the head—goes silent, which is experienced as liberation and freedom, and results in actually getting out of our own way.
“When your sense of self disappears, your inner critic, that nagging always on defeatist voice in your head, your inner Woody Allen. In flow, Woody gets silent, right? So we experienced this as liberation, as freedom. We are actually getting out of our own way, literally.”
Time is calculated all over the prefrontal cortex; as parts of the prefrontal cortex wink out in flow, it can no longer separate past from present from future, plunging us into a state researchers call 'the deep now', which has huge impact on performance because most fears and anxieties are about things that happened in the past or might happen in the future, not the present moment.
“Time, it turns out is calculated all over the prefrontal cortex. And as parts of it wink out, it can no longer separate past from present, from future. We're plunged into a state researchers talk about as the deep now. Now, the deep now has a huge impact on performance. If you think about most of your fears, most of your anxieties, very few of them are in the right here right now. They're usually horrible things that happened in the past that we'd like to avoid happening again in the present, or they're scary things that might, maybe, could happen in the future, right? And we'd like to steer around it. When we end up in the deep now, when time gets shut down in a flow state, anxiety disappears, your stress hormones flood out of your system.”
Biotechnology is currently accelerating at five times the speed of Moore's Law, doubling in power every four months, allowing researchers to peer under the hood of flow and see where it's coming from neurobiologically.
“So biotechnology is currently accelerating at five times the speed of Moore's law. It is doubling in power every four months. And as a result, we are able for the very first time to peer under the hood of flow, we can see where it's coming from.”
In the 1990s, University of Wisconsin neuroscientist Richard Davidson discovered that Tibetan Buddhists with 30,000 hours of meditation ('cushion time') could put their brains into radical consciousness states with brainwave patterns similar to flow.
“So back in the 1990s, University of Wisconsin neuroscientist, Richard Davidson discovered that Tibetan Buddhists who had 30,000 hours of cushion time, right, could put their brains in a really radical state of consciousness. The brainwaves of which are very similar to flow.”
Creativity at the mechanistic level is fairly straightforward: it happens when the brain takes in novel information, connects it to older ideas, and uses those connections to create something startling and new in the world.
“So creativity is really critical, right? It's been called the most important 21st century skill, right? The number one thing we need to thrive in this current century. And it's also a massively misunderstood concept. So under the hood at a mechanistic level, creativity is fairly straightforward. It happens when the brain takes in novel information, uses that information to connect to older ideas and uses those connections and there's new ideas that it creates to create something startling, new in the world.”
Google's 20% time policy (where employees get 20% of their time to work on whatever they want) is a flow trigger—specifically, an autonomy/self-directed learning trigger.
“Google's 20% time, right? Where they give employees 20% their time, to work on whatever they want, why? It's a group flow trigger. Or it's a flow trigger, excuse me.”
The U.S. Air Force uses TMS with radar operators before duty because they perform better at pattern detection; stockbrokers use TMS before trading to spot more patterns; Silicon Valley is setting up TMS shops not just for cognitive enhancement but to reset nervous systems and treat depression and anxiety through prefrontal cortex quieting.
“So, the Air Force has discovered that radar operators who have to detect fancy patterns over long periods of time perform better this way. So they're using it before people go on duty. There are stockbrokers who are using the same thing before they're going onto the trading floor 'cause they can spot more patterns. In Silicon Valley, they're setting up shops where people are doing this, not for what it's doing for cognitive enhancement, but because it also by quieting the prefrontal cortex, by turning off the inner critic, by putting us in the deep now, it resets the nervous system as I mentioned. So it's being used to treat kind of depression and anxiety as well.”
People who score highest in the world for overall life satisfaction and wellbeing are the people with the most flow in their lives—flow is fundamental to wellbeing.
“Flow is fundamental to wellbeing and overall life satisfaction. In fact, in his study, he found that the people who score off the charts, highest in the world, for overall life satisfaction and wellbeing, are the people with the most flow in their lives.”
In every domain examined—action adventure sports, business, technology, science, and arts—ultimate human performance has the exact same signature: a state of consciousness known as flow.
“Every domain you find ultimate human performance has the exact same signature. It is a state of consciousness, known to researchers as flow.”
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, chairman of the University of Chicago Psychology Department, conducted one of the largest global studies on optimal performance ever done in the 1960s-1980s and discovered three fundamental things about flow: it is definable, it is universal, and it is fundamental to wellbeing.
“This is Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. He is often called the godfather of flow psychology. He was the chairman of the University of Chicago, Psychology Department and he conducted one of the largest global studies on optimal performance anybody has ever done. And he learned three things about flow that are really fundamental.”
Self is a network of different structures in the prefrontal cortex that are linked together, and like any network, as parts of it wink out, the network collapses and the sense of self disappears.
“Same thing happens to your sense of self. So self is actually a network. It's a bunch of different structures in the prefrontal cortex that are linked together. And like any network, as parts of it start to wink out, the network collapses. As a result, our sense of self disappears.”
Flow knowledge puts a wonderful and terrible burden on each person: understanding that they could be 500% more productive, 600% more creative, and cut learning times in half, the question becomes what impossible grand challenges you would solve in your own life or the world.
“And this is the reason I've been telling you about flow for the past 40 minutes. And I think this knowledge puts a wonderful and yet kind of terrible burden on each and every one of us. Right? Ask yourself what kinds of impossible grand challenges would you guys go after? Would you solve in your own life? Would you try to solve in the world? If you could be 500% more productive. If you could be 600% more creative. If you could cut learning times in half. This is exactly what is available to each and every one of you today. But what you choose to do with this information is entirely up to you.”
Flow states have triggers—preconditions that lead to more flow; there are 20 total triggers split into individual triggers (what gets me into flow) and group triggers (what creates group flow), and all 20 drive attention into the right here, the right now.
“Flow is this giant neurochemical dump. As a result, in studies run by the U.S. military on radar operators and snipers, they find that learning rates in flow will increase 470%. Put this in different contexts. We've all heard about Malcolm Gladwell's fable, 10,000 hours to mastery. What the research consistently shows is that flow can cut those in half. Now the really good news, and this is a lot of the work the Flow Genome Project has helped to pioneer, is that what we now know, is that flow states are hackable. What we have discovered is that flow states have triggers. These are preconditions that lead to more flow. There are 20 of them in total. And I'm going to talk about all of them in a second. But the first thing you need to know, is the most obvious. Flow follows focus. It can only show up when all of our attention is focused on the right here, the right now.”
Silicon Valley culture produces massive flow because it has lots of passion, novelty, complexity, unpredictability, and risk—the same flow trigger mix found in action sports and extreme performance environments.
“But it's not just action adventure sport athletes, any place you see a culture of innovation, Silicon Valley for example, think about it. Lots of passion, lots of novelty, complexity, unpredictability, lots of risk, massive amounts of flow.”
Uninterrupted concentration is the foundational flow hack; companies with email-return-in-one-hour or message-return-in-15-minutes policies absolutely destroy the foundational thing needed to create high performance in the workplace.
“And this also, by the way, leads me to the first flow hack that I'm going to give you guys. And it's the most important. And when I go into organizations and I work with organizations, the first thing I tell people is that they can't hang a sign on their door that says firetruck off, I'm flowing. Can't do this work. So if you work for a company or you run a company that has policies like emails must be returned in an hour, or messages must be returned in 15 minutes, that's a disaster. You are absolutely destroying the foundational thing you need to create high performance in the workplace.”
Technology is taking consciousness states to scale through communitas (the giant collective version of group flow), where experiences that used to be for 50 people around a drum circle or campfire now reach 100,000-200,000 people simultaneously, as in rock concerts where an entire stadium merges with the music.
“So consider communitas. Communitas is the giant collective version of group flow. It's what happens when an entire stadium crowd in a rock concert, all merges with the music, right? Think about the technology behind music, right? Think about acoustics and what's happened in the past 50 years. We're taking experiences that used to be for 50 people around a drum circle, around a campfire. and a 100-200,000 people are getting to have them at once. This is a radical, radical, radical shift.”
Pharmacology is enabling human experience of consciousness states that were rare, fleeting occurrences for thousands of years to become available nearly on demand through pills; what exists in pill form today will exist in technological form tomorrow, scaling these states.
“Pharmacology, is giving us a whole new suite of tools that are allowing us to experience some of these states nearly on demand, right? These states of consciousness for thousands of years were very rare fleeting occurrences that happen maybe sometimes if you got lucky. Now, we can get them through pills very, very quickly. And what's coming in, what's in pill form today will be in technological form tomorrow.”
Flow triggers are easy to work with; a Google-Flow Genome Project joint 6-week intervention with 80 employees (one hour homework per day spread throughout the day) training them in sleep hygiene and four flow triggers produced 35-80% increase in flow.
“So a really important thing to know about these flow triggers is not only do they exist, they're actually really easy to work with. So a couple years ago, my organization teamed up with Google and we ran a six week joint learning exercise. And we took a team of about 80 different Googlers. And this is from all over the company. So we had people from facilities, marketing, PR, coders, engineers, and we train them up in four high performance basics. And when I say basics, I mean, absolute basics. Things like sleep hygiene, get enough sleep at night. Seven and a half hours is usually what you need, that sort of thing. And we train them up in four flow triggers. And after six weeks of training them up, and this was basically about an hour's worth of homework a day, spread out through the day. So it wasn't one solid chunk. We saw a 35-80% increase in flow.”
Repeated cycles of injury and recovery while chasing extreme athletes showed dramatically accelerated progress in skill and capability—tasks that were impossible four months prior became routine and subject to further iteration within months.
“I'd be hanging out and I'd snap this or that. And then I'd have to take four months, five months off. And when I came back, the progress I saw was astounding. It was amazing. It was leaps and bounds kind of progress. Stuff that had been absolutely impossible just four months ago was not just being done, it was being iterated upon.”
Neurobiology gives science the tools to map and measure what's happening in brains and bodies when experiencing states of consciousness that are often inexplicable.
“Neurobiology, obviously, gives us the tools to map and measure, right, what's happening in our brains and our bodies, when we're experiencing what is often downright inexplicable.”
In a Stanford neuroscience experiment designed by David Eagleman, the speaker was hoisted 150 feet in the air, dropped into a circus net while wearing a perceptual chronometer on his wrist, in an attempt to understand why time slows down in flow states. The experiment was semi-successful and resulted in six to seven months of hard chiropractic work to restore neck function.
“This is me taking part in an experiment designed by Stanford neuroscientist, David Eagleman. And I've been hoisted 150 feet in the air, and I'm being dropped into a circus net and I've got a perceptual chronometer on my wrist. And we're trying to figure out why time slows down in a flow state. And I will tell you, we were semi-successful in that experiment. It also took about six, seven months of hard chiropractic work till my neck worked right again. So people, people were injured to bring you this information.”
Psychology has undergone revolution in the past 50-70 years in how people understand identity and their internal psychological nature; from rigid 1950s gender/personality boxes to expanded modern understanding (90 different sexuality terms, transgender visibility); machine learning and big data have accelerated psychology's capacity to process survey data (from thousands to tens of thousands of responses).
“The other thing that has changed in psychology is our version of who we are in the world. Our version of our internal psychology over the past 50, 70 years has undergone a revolution. Think about who we get to be in the world. Go back to the 1950s, and even though it's a stereotype, it's a fairly accurate one. You had Betty homemaker on one side, and you have the strong, silent marble man on the other, right? And those were the boxes most people had to live in, right. Now we've got 90 different terms for sexuality that people are using. Now we've got Victoria Secret, transgender runway models, getting standing ovations. Our version of who we get to be in the world has massively expanded over the past 70 years.”
Flow science dates back to the late 1880s, marking the first documented recognition that altered states of consciousness have radical impact on performance.
“Now, flow science is actually quite old. It dates back to the late 1880s. Which was the very first time somebody figured out that an altered state of consciousness, which is what flow is, had a radical impact on performance.”
Flow is known by other colloquial names including runner's high, being in the zone, being unconscious (in basketball), being in the pocket (for jazz musicians), and being in the forever box (in stand-up comedy).
“Now you may know flow by other names, right? You may call it runner's high or being in the zone. If you happen to play basketball, you might call it being unconscious. If you're a beatnik jazz musician, you're being in the pocket. If you do stand up comedy, you're in the forever box.”
Action adventure sports (surfing, skiing, rock climbing, snowboarding) were hot topics in late 1990s journalism, making it valuable work for writers who could cover those sports.
“in the end of the 1990s, when I became a journalist, action adventure sports were a really hot topic. So back then, surfing, skiing, rock climbing, snowboarding, the like, we're catching a lot of attention. The X Games were starting out, the Gravity Games. And back then, if you could write and ski or write and surf or write and rock climb, there was work.”
Researchers call flow 'autotelic' (meaning end in itself) or describe it as 'the source code of intrinsic motivation' to avoid the negative connotations of the term 'addictive'.
“Now, researchers don't like the addictive. It's got negative connotations apparently. Instead, they use things like autotelic, which means, end in itself. Or they say things like flow is the source code of intrinsic motivation.”
In 'Tomorrowland', the speaker focused on maverick innovators who turned science fiction ideas into science fact technology, including upstart entrepreneurs like Larry Page, Jeff Bezos, and Elon Musk who built world-changing, impossible businesses in near record time.
“In 'Tomorrowland', for example, I focused on those maverick innovators who turned science fiction ideas into science fact technology. Who did the impossible, of literally dreaming up the future. In bold. I looked at upstart entrepreneurs, Larry Page, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk. People who had built world changing, impossible businesses in near record time.”
In 'Abundance', the speaker and Peter Diamandis examined small teams and individuals going after grand global challenges like poverty, healthcare, energy scarcity, and water scarcity—things that were previously the sole province of large corporations and big governments.
“In 'Abundance', the book that Vija mentioned, teamed up with my good friend, Peter Diamandis. And we looked at small teams and individuals who are going after grand global challenges. Things like poverty or healthcare or energy scarcity or water scarcity. These are things that just a few decades back had been the sole province of large corporations and big governments and yet here were individuals tackling these impossible challenges.”