Seth Godin: "Failure is Learning on Your Way to Mastery" and Other Advice for Creativity

Open-book educational tests and environments force actual learning because you have to do the work and understand something rather than just memorize for 10 minutes—speaker observed that the only courses he learned anything in were essentially open-book because they required actually doing the work.

“You mentioned in your book that when you got your MBA, there was an open book test. And I thought that was a typo cuz when I got my MBA, there wasn't one open book test. Every test was closed book. And when I thought about it, I realized that the only courses I learned anything in in college and business school were the ones that were essentially open book. Because what it means to have an open book educational interaction is that you have to do the work.”

People who are so privileged they don't have a requirement to do labor, emotional or otherwise, are not very happy. Happiness and meaning come from being engaged in work—from being 'on' and 'off'—not from unlimited leisure.

“there are definitely people who are so privileged they don't have a requirement to do labor, emotional or otherwise. And I don't think those people um are very happy. Because part of what makes us modern humans is we are on and we are off and when we're on, we're doing some sort of labor.”

The fact that so many people in media make no contribution at all and are just taking the whole time, and we sometimes lionize those people as heroes, is problematic; the Forbes 400 is a toxic pox on our culture because it's not a proper way to measure someone's contribution.

“many of whom are in the media who make no contribution at all. Who are just taking all the time. And sometimes we lionize those people and sometimes we call those people heroes of ours. I don't think that that makes sense. I think the Forbes 400 is actually uh a toxic uh pox on our culture um because that's no way to measure someone's contribution.”

The phrase 'It's just business' is really a horrible phrase because it signals that relationship rules don't apply in the business context; it signals 'all that matters is maximizing my position regardless of our relationship.'

“And so, people the phrase 'It's just business.' is really a horrible phrase, but lots of people mean it. Which what they're saying is All right, so when I worked at Spinnaker for David Sisson in 1983, uh he loved board games. And I've been a game designer since I was 16. And so, we were playing Diplomacy, me and the seven other senior people at the company.”

Harry Potter, the most successful book franchise in history making the author over a billion dollars, is for almost no one—it is for precocious 12-year-olds and people who like to remember what it was like to be a precocious 12-year-old, not for everyone.

“Harry Potter, the most successful uh book franchise in history, it made the author over a billion dollars. That book is for almost no one. Right? That book is for precocious 12-year-olds and people who like to remember what was like to be a precocious 12-year-old. That's not everyone. That's a very small group of people.”

The three pillars of Godin's worldview are: (1) The change you seek to make—are you here to contribute or take? To do what you're told or to question? (2) What possibility do you see?—Do you believe you have leverage and can make a difference? And learning to see the world as it is. (3) How much emotional labor are you able and willing to expend?—Do you care enough to learn?

“The first one is the change you seek to make. Are you here to make a contribution or are you here to take something? Are you here to do what you are told or are you here to question and to make things different? And answering that question honestly is really difficult. Because it's all about the story we tell ourselves.”

There is a pattern to who succeeds in creative work: successful creatives have made the decision that they want to change things, as opposed to adopting the mindset of 'I will do what I am told,' and this is different from a checklist of required attributes.

“what I said is the only thing that leaders have in common is that they are leaders. And the only thing that charismatic people have in common is that people have think they have charisma. But there isn't a given set of checklist items that you have to have to be creative or to be a leader or to have charisma. Instead, we can look for what rhymes and what the the patterns are. And in the case of a creative, it involves somebody who has made the decision that they want to change things. And that is different than adopting the brainwashed mindset of I will do what I am told.”

Wearing a uniform (work costume) at work sends yourself a message to do your work at your workspace during appointed hours, never miss a deadline, never go over budget; professionals don't miss deadlines, throw tantrums, or go over budget.

“for years I've had uniforms at work...when you put on the uniform, you've just sent yourself a message. Do your work at your work space. Do it at the appointed hours. Never ever miss a deadline. Never ever go over budget cuz professionals don't miss deadlines, don't throw tantrums, and don't go over budget.”

Practices like morning pages bypass the critical voice (monkey mind) and allow the other voice to present its agenda so that cognition-focused brain can make a decision—this doesn't mean the other voice will always be right, but it should at least be allowed to speak.

“Great shortcuts and hacks like morning pages...exist to bypass the first voice. That so many of the things that creative people do as part of their practice exist to make the first voice, the monkey mind, be a little calmer so that the other voice can be trusted enough to speak up. That doesn't mean it will always work, and it doesn't mean we should let that voice do whatever it wants to, but it should at least be allowed to present its agenda so that our more uh cognition-focused brain can make a decision.”

Creativity is a choice, not a bolt of lightning; it requires extending yourself with empathy to the person you're seeking to serve and extending yourself through time into the future, announcing something that might not work; this emotional labor is voluntary and therefore creative.

“what does it mean to be creative? It means that you have to extend yourself with empathy to the person you're seeking to serve, to the person who the work is for. And you have to extend yourself not just through space, but through time into the future, announcing something that might or might not work. You don't know yet. That's what makes it creative. If you exert the emotional labor to do those two things, sometimes you will have a successful creative outcome. That's a choice.”

Self-shaming is common and creates an internal boss who wakes you at night, scolds you, criticizes all your work, and says you'll never amount to anything; extinguishing this internal narrative is critical because it destroys your capacity for work.

“I like to talk about the World's Worst Boss. And basically, if you had a boss who woke you up in the middle of the night, scolded you for not working hard enough, criticized all your work, and told you you were never going to amount to anything, you would not work for that person for very long. And yet most of us, that is our own boss. That's who we work for, that voice in our head. And if that voice is shaming you, you need to figure out how to undo that internal narrative because it is extinguishing your work.”

'Do it on purpose and you'll find out who you are' inverts the common approach of first figuring out who you are and then finding things that fit; instead, taking intentional action and committing to it reveals your identity and values.

“And the do it on purpose is a lot uh it is a significant underpinning...And I would like to flip uh Dolly's uh phrase upside down. And I'd like to say, 'Do it on purpose and you'll find out who you are.' That asking for a guarantee before you start isn't helpful. Instead, we need to look at a concept, an idea, and be willing to try it out with intent. Because if we do, if we try it on for size, we will figure out if it fits us as opposed to the opposite, which is spending a lot of time figuring out who we are and then going and finding the things that fit us.”

Success can be measured by: (1) would they miss you if you were gone; (2) have you done something for which there are few happy substitutes; and (3) have you done it in a way that leaves things better than you found them.

“I try to keep track of uh would they miss you if you were gone? Would they miss you if you didn't show up? Have you done something for which there are few uh happy substitutes? And have you done it in a way that leaves things better than you found them? And so that's the compass I'm trying to use each day.”

David Chang became David Chang (and Momofuku became Momofuku) when he told a regular vegetarian customer to go somewhere else because having that customer did not help him make the change he sought to make in the restaurant, demonstrating that saying no to the wrong customers is essential to success.

“And the sixth week we went, and uh David said, 'You know, there's a restaurant about a block from here that really likes vegetarians. And we have almost no vegetarian items on our menu, and I think it would be better if you went somewhere else for lunch next time.' And that was the day that Momofuku became Momofuku and that David Chang became David Chang because yeah, there are plenty of people you could cater to, but the question is does that help you make the change you seek to make?”

We say a book is for everyone because it helps us be an evangelist, making us feel generous like we're bringing something to the world everyone will benefit from, but what actually defines us is not our atoms or DNA but the stories we tell ourselves about the pain we're in, the hopes we have, and the dreams we live with.

“And we say it's for everyone because it's fuel. It helps us be an evangelist. It says, uh I am going to be so generous that I'm going to bring something to the world that everyone will benefit from. But we are not who we are because of uh our atoms or molecules or DNA. We're who we are because of the stories we tell ourselves about the pain we're in, the hopes we have, the dreams we uh live with. Pick those. Be specific about those.”

The way to be on the hook is to say 'This is only for people who are like this' because if those people hate it then you were wrong, whereas if you say 'This is for everyone' you're allowed to hide behind 'Well, everyone hasn't found it yet.'

“the way to be on the hook is to say, 'This is only for people who are like this.' Because if those people hate it, then you were wrong. Whereas if you say, 'This is for everyone,' you're allowed to hide behind, 'Well, everyone hasn't found it yet.'”

Godin walled off certain areas of choice early in life (not watching television, not eating meat since ~1979) because limiting incoming stimuli and distractions forces him to be on the hook; doing nothing deprives him of the novelty fuel he needs to feel alive.

“I haven't had meat since 1981 or 1979 or so. I just decided I'm done. Not going to do that and I have no yearnings cravings whatsoever. I'm just done. And um by walling off areas of what I do and don't do and how I do it I've narrowed the frame of the decisions that I need to consider...It doesn't matter. That I just said I'm not going to watch television. And with all the time I saved not watching television, I got all these other benefits. But I could have just as easily said, I'm not going to do this with my time so I can watch television. It doesn't matter. It's just limiting the incoming, limiting the distractions forces me to be on the hook because I can't go home at the end of the day or can't go to bed at night and say, well uh that day went fine. Because if I don't do the things that I'm left with, I do nothing. And it's that doing nothing becomes a fuel for someone who needs novelty.”

The person asking for something (a speech, a blurb, etc.) often doesn't actually want what they say they want; they want status from their peers by having Godin's contribution, and offering to help them gain more status by having their audience engage with the content is more useful than giving them what they asked for.

“What they were actually doing is saying, I will gain status in the eyes of my peers if I can persuade you to give us a very expensive speech for free. And I heard that and I saw that and I wrote back basically saying, yes, but you will gain more status with your peers if you can persuade them to exert emotional labor to actually learn something.”

Almost all live in-person talks are terrible because the speaker is afraid, and the speaker is mistaken about what the talk is for; if you want to deliver information, write a book or memo instead, because live talks are performing, not delivering information, and the goal is to cause emotional change in the audience.

“I have seen 10,000 talks live in person cuz I've given a thousand of them. And uh almost all of them are terrible. They're terrible for a couple reasons. First of all, the person giving the talk is afraid. And secondly, the person giving the talk is mistaken about what the talk is for. If you want to exchange or deliver information to a group of people, one of the worst ways to do it is with a live verbal presentation. If your goal is actually to deliver that scientific paper or that insight, then you should either write a book or write a memo and say, here, in an asynchronous way, this is what we know. If you're going to show up live, in person, in real time, synchronized, you are performing.”

Good talks create emotional change in audiences by using stories and changing emotional state up and down across the talk; the presence of other people in the room is critical, and the goal is to cause people to realize 'people like us do things like this' and understand this is the new norm.

“I will tell a large number of stories and I will change the emotional state of the audience up and down and back and forth. And it will be better because other people are in the room with you. That is critical...And when you leave, you will have seen the look on the other people, and realize, people like us do things like this. This is the way it's going to be around here from now on.”

A book serves two functions: (1) it signals to the reader that the author could have written a blog post but instead devoted a year of life to this complete, timeless, shareable form; and (2) it becomes a touchstone that can be shared with others to create a shared understanding.

“a book is two things. First, it's a signal to the reader to say, 'This person who you know could have written a blog post decided to devote a year of his or her life to handing it to you in this complete form that is timeless and shareable. And the second part is, and now you can share it, you can have a book group. You can hand it to somebody else and say, 'This. Let's talk about this.'”

The statement 'I don't have any questions' is a euphemism for 'I don't care enough to ask a question that might embarrass me,' which is really saying 'I don't want to make the choice to be creative.'

“the people who say, 'I don't have any questions.' Well, no. It's impossible you don't have any questions. What you're actually saying is, 'I don't care enough to ask a question that might embarrass me.' That's what you're actually saying. And that's a euphemism for 'I don't want to make the choice to be creative.'”

We are unwilling to look like an idiot in the short term to be successful in the long term, and this is one of the biggest things that holds us back in life.

“I have this theory that one of the biggest things that holds us back in life is that we're unwilling to look like an idiot in the short term to be successful in the long term.”

The work (professional commitment) is different from work (the verb); Godin received the phrase 'permission marketing' in the shower while intentionally working toward a deadline, not accidentally, demonstrating that insights come during focused effort, not random inspiration.

“the permission marketing, the phrase that enabled me to be an author, um came to me in the shower, right? But it didn't come to me in the shower accidentally. It came to me in the shower with intent. I went into the shower and I was getting close to the self-appointed deadline and I said, 'I'm going to stay in the shower until I have a name for this thing we do here, even if the water gets cold.'”

Criticism is what happens when someone with domain knowledge who is not trying to earn status by hurting you is able to help you see the world as it is; most criticism people receive comes from people who feel better if they feel worse, though they may not verbalize that to themselves.

“Criticism is completely different. Criticism is what happens when someone with domain knowledge who is not trying to earn status by hurting you is able to help you see the world as it is. And those three pieces are the key, right? Because most of the criticism I've gotten in my life has come from people who felt like they would feel better if I felt worse.”

You should hire someone who is intuitive and has good taste if you can, but you shouldn't work for them and you shouldn't have them as a client because you can't get better from them; what you need is someone who can explain why things work in words, giving you a taxonomy.

“If you can hire somebody like that, you should do it. But you shouldn't work for somebody like that. And you shouldn't have somebody like that as a client because it's going to be really hard for you to get better.”

Godin had theories about how the internet worked that allowed him to make predictions; once you have a taxonomy, you can generate hypotheses ('and then maybe this and then maybe this'); the ability to learn a narrative and change it based on new data is useful work.

“I had a set of theories about how the internet worked. And if you read Unleashing the Idea Virus, which I wrote 20 years ago, I was right about so many things cuz I had a theory. And once you have the taxonomy, you can say, 'And then maybe this and then maybe this and then maybe this.' I didn't, on the other hand, trust myself enough to invest in any of the companies that changed the world cuz that's not what I do, but learning a narrative and then changing it based on new data, I mean, that's what you've been doing for years.”

A 1,000-year-old mochi shop in Kyoto, Japan demonstrates that the path to sustainable business is not shortcuts or hacks, but focusing on doing the work the way you want to do it. They resisted automation for a thousand years, and the first major technological advance they adopted was a rice kneading machine only 20 years ago, because their job is not to be the biggest or most profitable mochi store, but to do their work their way.

“I was just reading about a mochi shop in Kyoto, Japan that's a thousand years old. And building a business to last a thousand years, you're not going to be able to do that with shortcuts or hacks. You're going to do it by focusing on something else. And the thing is they bought a rice kneading machine, I don't know, 20 years ago. But that was the first major technological advance they'd had in a thousand years. Because the job of the mochi store is not to be the biggest or most profitable mochi store. It is to do their work the way they want to do it.”

If you run a marathon you will get tired, and you shouldn't hire a coach to teach you how to run without getting tired; similarly, if you do emotional labor you will become afraid, fatigued, and feel like giving up, but these are part of what it means to do emotional labor, not obstacles to overcome.

“if you're going to run a marathon, you're going to get tired. And you shouldn't hire a coach to teach you how to run a marathon without getting tired. And if you're going to do this work of emotional labor, you're going to become afraid. You're going to get fatigued. You're going to feel like giving up. You can't make that go away. That's part of what it means to do emotional labor.”

The difference between sushi and cold fish on rice is that sushi is a sales process (selling people on an idea, changing perspective), while cold fish on rice is just the thing itself (information); a good talk should be sushi (sales process) not cold fish on rice.

“It's the difference between sushi and cold fish on rice, right? Sushi is a sales process, cold fish on rice is what it actually is.”

We are brilliant at rationalizing sunk costs and one major way we do this is by dramatizing how expensive it will be to tell other people we're ignoring sunk costs—for example, deciding to stay unhappy in a career for 10 more years because we fear breaking parents' hearts for an hour by telling them we hate being a lawyer.

“Our ability to rationalize sunk costs is really spectacular and one of the things that we do is we increase we dramatize how expensive it will be to tell other people that we are ignoring sunk costs. It will break my parents' heart if I tell them that after 10 years I hate being a lawyer because they paid for me to go to law school. And so therefore I'm going to be unhappy for 10 more years cuz I don't want my parents to be unhappy for an hour.”

Diane von Fürstenberg, interviewed by Godin for American Express, had written two autobiographies but hadn't written them and hadn't even read them; she was unable to describe why her successes succeeded or failures failed; she was intuitive and had good taste but lacked domain knowledge (explainable expertise).

“I realized not only hadn't she written her autobiographies, she hadn't even read them. And part aside, she was unable to describe why the things she had done that succeeded had succeeded. And she was unable to describe why the things that had failed had failed. She was just completely intuitive. She just had a hunch...she didn't have domain knowledge, she had locked into good taste. What she liked is what other people liked.”

A single serendipitous event (the 1997 invitation from SoftBank's Mr. Son to a ZDNet launch party in San Francisco) involved friction but was a pivotal opportunity; luck often arrives through channels that require accepting friction to access.

“Uh it was 1997 and they were launching ZDNet which was SoftBank's TV network about technology. And my office was outside of New York City and I get this call, uh Mr. Son would really like it if you would come to the launch party for ZDNet. And I'm like, well, he's an investor in the people who are investors in me, I'd be happy to help...it was nothing but friction, right?”

There are two voices in your head: one is hyperliterate, verbal, critical, responsible for fitting in; the other is not good at being verbal, wants to make things better, is curious and inquisitive, and might color outside the lines; the first voice is mostly in control.

“One voice is hyperliterate and verbal and vocal and a critic. It is responsible for getting us to fit in all the way. The other voice, not that good at being verbal. That self is the one that wants to make things better, that's curious, that's inquisitive, that might color outside the lines. And it's the first voice that is mostly in control.”

In a symbolic logic exam with unlimited time, after 3.5 hours Godin left having met his spec, while someone else stayed 18 hours pursuing perfectionism; the question is what did they get in exchange for that extra effort.

“after 3 and 1/2 hours at the in the logic exam, I said, 'I could probably get a few more points here, but I have met my spec.' And I left. And I was one of the first people to leave, but someone stayed there for I think it was 18 hours.”

In Godin's workshops (Kimbo and altMBA), people give and receive 400-600 pieces of feedback per month from fellow travelers; they report this is more feedback than they got in 2 years, and it is useful because it comes without shame, just information.

“some of the workshops inside of Kimbo and the altMBA, people give and get between 400 and 600 pieces of feedback a month from fellow travelers who are doing what they're doing. And what they say is, um, that's more feedback than I got in 2 years. And it's useful feedback from people who know how to give criticism. And it doesn't come with shame. It's just information.”

Godin sold his first book the first day and then received 800 rejection letters in a row; learning to separate 'This idea isn't working for us' from 'You're a bad person who will never amount to anything' was critical to his development as someone who could do this work.

“I learned the first year I was in the book business, I sold my first book the first day, and then I got 800 rejection letters in a row...learning to separate the feedback of 'This idea isn't working for us.' from 'You're a bad person who will never amount to anything.' was a key part of my internal development as someone who could do this work.”

Michael Korda and John Boswell, early figures in publishing, were the first people who could explain to Godin in words why things that worked worked; this taxonomy was useful to someone who thinks with both sides of their brain.

“Michael Korda, who's still the most influential person in the book business...and John Boswell, who did French for Cats and O.J.'s Legal Pad, they were the first two people in the book industry who could explain to me in words why things that worked worked. And they weren't always right, but they gave me a grounding, a taxonomy.”

Godin's parents showed him more than parental obligation by betting on him; this was 10 years of fuel that made a huge difference, especially after the painful high school experience.

“My parents did. Do you remember how you felt in that moment when you realized that they were doing that? The high school thing was really painful and seeing them uh show up with more than parental obligation was a I mean, it was 10 years of fuel. It made a huge difference to me.”

The podcast became real when someone offered to pay him to make it, which shifted it from pure exploration to a professional commitment—now on season 8, he continues because it satisfies him and contributes to the things he cares about, and he'll stop the day it stops giving him joy and becomes a sunk cost.

“And then I got a call from somebody uh who said we will pay you to make a podcast...I wasn't taking intentional action. I was reacting to something that was incoming...But then I looked at the options, which is well, you've solved this problem and so you could say no and then you get nothing. Or this person will make a contribution to the things that you care about and you'll get a laboratory to explore new ways to do this. And so I said yes. And now I'm on the eighth season...But as long as what I'm carrying this water satisfies me, I'll keep doing it and the day it doesn't it will become a sunk cost and I will walk away.”

If leverage differences between meeting spec and exceeding spec are massive (like in financial instruments where 1% difference can mean millions), that difference should be part of the spec; but generally, good enough means you met spec and should ship.

“Do you think that applies in a world of leverage where the difference between something that's, you know, meets spec and something that exceeds spec can be massively disproportionate? Yeah, no, I think that we're having a semantic discussion here, but if the massive shift that you're looking for that comes from leverage is important, that should be part of the spec.”

Most books get wrong because authors pursue magical elements of status (bestseller lists, reviews, friends' approval) and listen to risk-averse editors who only spend 3 days on each book, rather than writing at the length needed to make the work singular, idiosyncratic, and peculiar.

“The authors of most books are looking for many of the magical elements of status that come from successfully being published. They pay attention to the bestseller list. They game it. They pay attention to reviews...And they listen way too much to risk-averse editors who are going to do 50 or 100 books a year. Those people are only going to spend 3 days total on your book, and then there's going to be another one. Whereas this is your book, and you should write it at the length you need it to be to make it singular and idiosyncratic and peculiar”

Godin attended TED conferences and found them filled with status games and cocktail parties. He realized he didn't have to go anymore and wasn't good at them, which was freeing. His professional work is to make the people he made his promise to happy, not to win status games. He 'got done with that in high school' and wants to stay done.

“the status games are really significant that I used to go to TED and there's some really cool people there, but there's also way more cocktail party status games than I can handle. And I felt like I was failing cuz I wasn't good at them and didn't enjoy them. And then I realized I don't have to go anymore.”

In a game of Diplomacy at Spinnaker (1983), Godin formed an alliance with his boss David Sisson and then double-crossed him in round five; it took a year for their relationship to recover because Sisson saw it as a betrayal of mentorship despite Godin viewing it as game strategy.

“when I worked at Spinnaker for David Sisson in 1983, uh he loved board games...And we had a mutual non-aggression pact. And in round five, I double-crossed him. And, uh, knocked him out of the game. It took a year for our relationship to recover. Cuz my whole thing was, 'It's just a game. That's the what you're supposed to do in Diplomacy.' And his thing was there was this overhang of yeah, but I'm your boss's boss and I'm your mentor. You're not supposed go double somebody else.”

As work becomes more like what people used to think of as hobbies (creative, expressive), people get confused and think their work is a hobby—but treating it as work (with deadlines, obligations, professional standards) is what makes it better, not letting the hobby-thinking undermine professional discipline.

“I think as we get more and more privileged where our work looks so much more like what people used to think of as hobbies, we can get confused by the fact that our work is a hobby. It's not. And treating it like our work, I think helps us make it better.”

The Acton Academy model, with 50 kids and only 2 adults (one being a custodian) in a one-room schoolhouse where children are not allowed to ask adults questions and are forced to teach and learn from each other, produces students who are more optimistic, resilient, generous, and better qualified to make a contribution than students who got A's and were on the pep squad.

“there are more than 100 of them. It's basically a one-room schoolhouse. Typically, there are 50 kids and two adults in the whole building and one of them is the custodian. And one of the rules at Acton is you're not allowed to ask an adult a question. And so we've got kids between 5 and 17 years of age teaching each other, learning from each other. They get a report card every week that goes home to their parents that says what they built and what they created and who they helped. And the process just keeps repeating. And you got to believe that at the end of 12 years of that, you are probably more optimistic, more resilient, more generous, and better qualified to make a contribution than someone who got A's and was on the pep squad.”

A book that claims to be 'for everybody' will fail because nobody has everyone as their customer and trying to serve everyone diffuses intent and prevents you from being specific about who will find your work indispensable.

“Well, so that book is going to fail. I happily put that in writing right this minute. That book is going to fail.”

Author defended his work by reading books he blurbs and writing blurbs personally, but can't do this for every book because it requires reading every word and writing his own work, so now he writes multi-times-daily saying 'I didn't read what you wrote, I'm really sorry, I can't, good luck' without cognitive load, because otherwise there would be no more work for him.

“Your work is your work and defending it is critical because otherwise you are going to do nothing but be a cost-free, unprioritized contribution to other people's work...I can't do it for every book cuz I read every word and I write my own stuff. So more and more, several times a day, I write back saying, I didn't read what you wrote. I'm really sorry, I can't. No, I won't be able to do this. Good luck. And uh not having cognitive load associated with that is critical because otherwise there'd be no more work for me.”

Godin's biggest mistakes in life are omissions rather than commissions: people he didn't help, things he didn't start, things he didn't say, people he didn't give the benefit of the doubt to; he worries about commission mistakes but they aren't many.

“Omission for sure. People I didn't help, things I didn't start, things I didn't say. Folks who I could have given the benefit of the doubt to who I didn't. Um I'm I worry a lot about the commission ones, but there aren't that many of them. The omission ones is a endless list.”