What this covers
Sam Harris speaks about the ongoing war in Gaza, the global rise of antisemitism, and the enduring problem of jihadism.
November 7, 2023
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Harris argues that jihadism—rooted in sincere religious belief in paradise and martyrdom—is the primary driver of the Israel-Hamas conflict and a civilizational threat to open societies, and that moral confusion about this threat, amplified by anti-Semitism and left-wing apologism, poses an existential danger equal to the military conflict itself.
- Jihadists believe sincerely in paradise and martyrdom, making their violence an act of worship rather than a rational political response to oppression or colonialism
- The widespread moral equivalence drawn between intentional jihadist atrocities and Israel's defensive military actions—even before Israel responded—reveals a dangerous civilizational confusion that must be understood as anti-Semitism or moral catastrophe
- Jihadism is a global ideological threat responsible for far more Muslim deaths than Israeli actions, yet receives tacit or explicit support from large populations and elite institutions in the West
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When jihadists believe that life in this world has no value apart from determining who goes to hell and who goes to paradise, it becomes possible for them to feel perfectly at ease killing non-combatants and using their own women and children as human shields, because they believe Muslims killed will go straight to paradise.
“when you believe that life in this world has no value apart from deciding who goes to hell and who goes to Paradise it becomes possible to feel perfectly at ease killing non-combatants or even using your own women and children as human Shields because you know that any Muslims who get killed will go straight to paradise for eternity”
Muhammad is considered by Muslims to be the greatest person who has ever lived and the perfect model for behavior, but unlike Jesus or Buddha, he tortured people, cut off their heads, and took sex slaves, which means his example is meant to inspire followers for all time.
“for Muslims Muhammad is the greatest person who has ever lived unfortunately he did not behave like Jesus or Buddha at all it sort of matters that he tortured people and cut their heads off and took sex slaves because his example is meant to inspire his followers for all time”
Many verses in the Quran urge Muslims to wage jihad against apostates and unbelievers, with the most violent verses thought to supersede any that seem more benign, and there is very little in the Quran that is benign, unlike Jesus in Matthew who urges people to love enemies and turn the other cheek.
“there are many many verses in the Quran that urge Muslims to wage Jihad Jihad is holy war against apostates and unbelievers and the most violent of these are thought to supersede any that seem more benign but the truth is there isn't much that is benign in the Quran there's certainly no Jesus as we find him in Matthew urging people to love their enemies and turn the other cheek”
Most recent Jewish immigrants to Israel came from Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, and other Muslim-majority countries and were driven from their homes by their Muslim neighbors after 1948 as collective punishment for the founding of Israel, yet no one discusses their right of return.
“most of the recent immigrants Jews from Iraq and Syria and Yemen and Libya and other Muslim majority countries were driven from their homes by their Muslim Neighbors after 1948 in Collective punishment for the founding of Israel is anyone talking about their right of return”
Certainty about paradise and about martyrdom as a way of getting there is one of the most potent memetic poisons the human mind has ever produced.
“certainty about paradise and about martyrdom as a way of getting there is one of the most potent mimetic poisons the human mind has ever produced”
If a history of land theft and oppression were sufficient to produce genocidal terrorism, there would be Native American and Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers, and Palestinian Christian suicide bombers, but there are virtually none, suggesting that ideas—not oppression—are the determining factor.
“if a history of land theft and oppression were sufficient to produce genocidal terrorism where are the Native American suicide bombers where are the Tibetan Buddhist SU Sude bombers do you realize how much oppression they've experienced at the hands of the Chinese were the Palestinian Christian suicide bombers I think there has been one the truth is ideas matter it absolutely matters what people believe”
From the jihadist perspective, the massacre at Supernova was not a mistake or error, but precisely what they should do—they were not killing the wrong people but exactly the right people to target for extermination according to their theology.
“if they could have known what was in the hearts of those beautiful young people they would have thought oh my God we're killing the wrong people these people aren't our enemies these people are filled with love and compassion and want nothing more than to live in peace with us no the true horror is that given what jihadists believe these were precisely the sorts of people any good Muslim should kill”
It is very easy to underestimate how much sympathy there is for the jihadist project among Muslims who are not themselves actively waging jihad.
“it is very easy to underestimate how much sympathy there is for the jihadist project among Muslims who are not themselves actively waging Jihad and this is a terrible thing to contemplate”
Much of the world took Hamas's side before Israel had dropped a single bomb, which Harris characterizes as astonishing, dangerous, and in need of criticism.
“much of the world took hamas's side before a single Israeli bomb fell and that is what is so astonishing and so dangerous and so in need of criticism”
The term 'Islamophobia' was invented in the 1970s by Iranian theocrats to prevent any criticism of Islam and to cast secularism itself as a form of bigotry.
“the term islamophobia was invented in the 1970s by Iranian theocrats to do just this to prevent any criticism of Islam and to cast secularism itself as a form of”
Israel's behavior and expansion of settlements on contested land, while worthy of criticism, do not explain the suicidal and genocidal inclinations of Hamas; rather, these inclinations are explained by Islamic doctrines of martyrdom and jihad, which are sincerely held religious beliefs.
“there are many things to be said in criticism of Israel in particular its expansion of settlements on contested land but Israel's behavior is not what explains the suicidal and genocidal inclinations of a group like Hamas the Islamic doctrines of marom and Jihad do these are religious beliefs sincerely held”
To create conditions where jihadism cannot spread, the West needs a wider Muslim community that condemns jihadism but also tacitly accepts that the theology inspiring it will be true and perfect until the end of the world.
“you just need a wider Muslim Community that doesn't condemn jihadism but tacitly admits that the theology that inspires it will be true and perfect until the end of the world you just need millions of people who will protest Israel for defending itself”
Western institutions—universities, media, nonprofits, and humanities departments—have created an industry of apology and obfuscation designed to protect Muslims from having to grapple with the reality of jihadist ideology, insisting that jihadists cannot be taken at their word about their religious motivations.
“in the west there is now a large industry of apology and obfuscation designed to protect Muslims from having to Grapple with these facts the humanities and social science Departments of every University are filled with Scholars and pseudo Scholars deemed to be experts in terrorism and religion and Islamic jurist prudence and anthropology and political science who claim that Muslim extremism is never What It Seems”
The Catholic Church's prohibition on contraception and abortion, combined with stigmatization of unwed mothers, led to many out-of-wedlock births and children abandoned to church-run orphanages, where they were preyed upon by sexually unhealthy men, making Catholic teaching partly responsible for clerical child sexual abuse.
“by making contraception and abortion taboo the church ensured that there would be many outof wedlock births among his faithful and by stigmatizing unwed mothers it further guaranteed that many children would be abandoned to church-run orphanages where they could be pred upon by sexually unhealthy men”
According to FBI statistics, Jews are over half of hate crime victims in America despite being only 2% of the population, receiving five times the level of hate that Muslims do, and much of this hate comes from Muslims themselves.
“though Jews are just over 2% of the population they receive over half the hate in America and five times the level that Muslims do and I think it's safe to say that much of this hate comes from Muslims themselves”
Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of his fellow Muslims in Syria, and the Saudis have killed well over 100,000 Muslims in Yemen, yet there are no global protests, suggesting that the world only cares when non-Muslims produce casualties and especially when Jews do.
“Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of his fellow Muslims in Syria the Saudis have killed well over 100,000 Muslims in Yemen where are the protests no one cares least of all Muslims they only care when non-muslims produce these casualties and they especially care when Jews do it”
Gaza is only an 'open prison' because its democratically elected government is a jihadist organization eager to martyr all Palestinians for the pleasure of killing Jews, and a rational government that cared about its citizens could have made something beautiful out of that strip of Mediterranean land.
“Gaza is only a quote open a prison because its democratically elected government is a jihadist organization that is eager to Martyr all Palestinians for the pleasure of killing Jews a rational government in Gaza that cared about the fate of its citizens could have made something beautiful out of that strip of land on the Mediterranean”
Harris recommends watching the film Hotel Mumbai, which depicts the 2008 terrorist attacks by the Pakistani group Lashkar-e-Taiba in which about a dozen jihadists killed over 160 people, many at the Taj Hotel, an attack that had nothing to do with Israel, America, or so-called settler colonialism.
“watch Hotel Mumbai it's a great film it depicts the terrorist attacks in Mumbai in 2008 by the Pakistani group lashar taiba if you forgotten around a dozen jihadists killed over 160 people in Mumbai many at the Taj Hotel and the film shows this with brutal realism and while they killed some Jews too at a Jewish Center this attack had nothing to do with Israel or America or a race or so-called settler colonialism”
The intuition that solving Middle East problems requires understanding their depth and complexity is actually a distraction, because the most important thing to grapple with is jihadism, and every moment spent on other historical context is a moment when the oxygen of moral sanity leaves the room.
“there's intuition out there that in order to solve the problems in the Middle East we must understand them in all their depth and complexity and for this the most important thing to Grapple with is the so-called historical context but for the purpose of really understanding this conflict and why it is so intractable historical context is a distraction every moment spent talking about something other than jihadism is a moment when the oxygen of moral sanity is leaving the room”
The existence of the Hamas phone call is not a total aberration but rather a window onto Palestinian culture, revealing that jihadist attitudes are more widespread in Palestinian society than Western observers typically recognize.
“this call wasn't a total aberration okay this wasn't Ted Bundy calling his mom this was an ordinary member of Hamas a group that still might win an election today especially in the West Bank calling an ordinary Palestinian family and the mere existence of that call to say nothing of its contents reveals something about the wider culture among the Palestinians”
In jihadist contexts outside Israel-Palestine, such as the attacks on Mumbai or the Islamic State's treatment of Shias, the same grotesque distortion of the spiritual impulse occurs without any of the variables that are typically blamed for jihadism—no settlers, blockades, humiliations at checkpoints, or historical disputes.
“or read a book about the Islamic State so that you can see jihadism in another context or literally not one of the variables that people imagine to be important here is present there are no settlers or blockades or daily humiliations at checkpoints or differing interpretations of history and yet we have the same grotesque Distortion of the spiritual impulse the same otherworldliness framed by murder”
Most people in the West haven't realized that they live in Israel now in the sense that they face the same civilizational threat from jihadism that Israel does.
“as I said in a previous podcast on this topic we all live in Israel now it's just that most of us haven't realized it”
Millions of people cannot perform basic moral arithmetic regarding the October 7th attacks—they cannot distinguish between Hamas's intentional targeting of non-combatants and Israel's defensive actions—which represents an enormous problem for open societies because this distinction should be immediately obvious.
“the fact that millions of people can't do the moral arithmetic here or have confidently produced the wrong answer is itself an enormous problem for open societies everywhere because this should not have been confusing”
When jihadists insist that they are acting for religious reasons—through extreme lifestyle choices, religious articulation, and even video confessions before suicide attacks—this is treated as rhetorically insufficient to prove their stated beliefs, yet a white supremacist claiming racial motivation is accepted at face value without hesitation, representing a rigged double standard.
“it would be impossible for a jihadist to prove that he was doing anything for religious reasons apparently it's not enough for an educated person with economic opportunities to devote himself to the most extreme and auster version of Islam and to articulate his religious reasons for doing so ad nauseum and to even go so far as to confess his certainty about martyrdom on video before blowing himself up in a crowd such demonstrations of religious fanaticism are somehow considered rhetorically insufficient to prove that he really believed what he said he believed of course if a white supremacist goes on a killing spree in a black church and says he did this because he hates black people and thinks that the white race is under attack this motive will be accepted at face value without the slightest hesitation this double standard is guaranteed to exonerate Islam every time the game is rigged”
Most response to jihadism should be covert rather than overt; members of jihadist organizations should be killed in ways that make them understand that the martyrdom they seek will be granted to them, while jihadism is dismantled logistically, economically, and informationally.
“I happen to think that most of our response to it should be covert I don't know why the Israelis or the Americans or the British or anyone else has to take credit for anything however long it takes members of Hamas and Hezbollah and al- Qaeda and the Islamic State and al-shabab and bokah Haram and the Pakistani Taliban and every other jihadist organization on Earth should be made to understand every day of their lives that the martyrdom they seek will be granted to them jihadism has to be destroyed in every way that it can be destroyed logistically economically informationally but also in the most material sense which means killing a lot of jihadists”
The people who butchered over 1,400 innocent people on October 7th were practicing their religion sincerely, being equally spiritual as trans dancers were being spiritual, and were equally devoted to their highest values—they were not irrational but consistent with their beliefs.
“the people who butchered over 1400 innocent men women and children in Israel on October 7th were practicing their religion sincerely they were being every bit as spiritual from their point of view as the trans dancer at the Supernova Festival were being from theirs they were equally devoted to their highest values equally uplifted ecstatic amazed at their Good Fortune they wouldn't want to trade places with anyone”
Islam is a system of ideas like Christianity, and unlike Judaism, Christianity and Islam are both aggressively missionary faiths that win converts from everywhere, making criticism of Islamic doctrine no more bigoted than criticism of Christian doctrine.
“Islam is a system of ideas subscribed to by people of every race and ethnicity it's just like Christianity in that regard unlike Judaism M Christianity and Islam are both aggressively missionary faiths and they win converts from everywhere people criticize the doctrines of Christianity all the time”
Jews are indigenous people in what is now Israel, having had a continuous presence there for thousands of years, whereas the British were colonialists who had somewhere else to go back to, so the historical analogy used to dismiss Israel's legitimacy is incoherent.
“the Jews in Israel are indigenous people okay the British were colonialists colonialists have some place to go back to where could the Jews go back to there's been a continuous presence of Jews in what is now Israel for thousands of years”
Progress will be marked by hundreds of thousands of Muslims condemning specific instances of jihadist savagery without 'both-sidesing' them, and by Muslims protesting the murder of cartoonists by their own religious fanatics rather than protesting depictions of the Prophet.
“when hundreds of thousands of people show up in London to condemn Hamas or the Islamic State or any specific instance of jihadist savagery without both sides in anything then we will know we have made a modum of progress when Muslims by the millions pour into the streets in protest not over cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad but over the murder of cartoonists by their own religious Fanatics we will know that an open-ended future of pluralistic tolerance might be possible”
LGBTQ activists support Hamas despite Hamas throwing people suspected of being gay off rooftops and being directly supported by Iran where gay people are regularly hanged, representing a suicidal alignment with an existential enemy.
“we have lgbtq activists supporting Hamas when they wouldn't survive a day in Gaza because Hamas throws anyone suspected of being gay off of rooftops they're directly supported by Iran where gay people are regularly hung”
While Israeli settlers occasionally commit terrible crimes that deserve prosecution, the world does not have a problem with Jewish religious fanatics targeting Muslims in mosques and schools—there are lunatics on both sides but their consequences are not equivalent.
“whatever Terrible Things Israeli settlers occasionally do and these are crimes for which they should be prosecuted generally speaking the world does not have a problem with Jewish religious Fanatics targeting Muslims in their mosques and schools you literally can't open a Jewish school in Paris because no one will ensure it yes there are lunatics on both sides but the consequences of their lunacy are not equivalent not even remotely equivalent we haven't spent the last 20 years taking our shoes off at the airport because there are so many fanatical Jews eager to blow themselves up up on airplanes”
Declarations by jihadists about their religious motivations must be taken at face value because they are honest confessions of a coherent worldview that is totally antithetical to everything civilized people value in the 21st century.
“my point is that we have to take Declarations of this kind at face value because they are honest Confessions of a worldview and it is a worldview that is totally antithetical to everything that civilized people value in the 21st century”
There is a bright line between good and a very specific form of evil—the evil of bad ideas so bad that they make ordinary human beings impossible to live with, and this line must be kept in view in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
“there is a bright line between good and a very specific form of evil that we must keep in view it is the evil of bad ideas ideas so bad that they can make even ordinary human beings impossible to live with”
College students tearing down posters of hostages held by Hamas—some of whom are Americans and children—while claiming to support the Palestinian cause represent a catastrophic moral inversion and logical error.
“we have college students at our best universities tearing down posters of hostages held by Hamas some of whom are Americans and some of whom are children imagining that they're supporting the Palestinian cause it boggles the mind”
Harris notes that jihadism is not a unified front; there are deep schisms between Sunni and Shia groups, and even between Taliban factions in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but all jihadists are united in hatred of liberal Western values and certainty about paradise.
“jihadis themselves are not a unified front there's a very deep Schism between Sunni and Shia despite the fact that some groups will collaborate across it the Afghan and Pakistani Taliban don't even get along at this point but jihadists are all United in their hatred of liberal Western values and in their certainty of paradise”
A mob chanted 'gas the Jews' in front of the Sydney Opera House, and Jewish students at Ivy League universities are cowering behind locked doors in fear for their physical safety.
“there was a mob chanting gas the Jews in front of the Sydney Opera house we have Jewish students in ivy league universities cowering behind locked doors in fear for their physical safety”
University administrators, diversity/equity/inclusion officers, and Hollywood celebrities who rushed to sign open letters supporting the Palestinian cause without understanding what happened on October 7 are now part of history and culpable for the subsequent anti-Semitism.
“all University administrators and diversity equity and inclusion Geniuses and Hollywood celebrities who rushed to sign open letters in support of the Palestinian cause without taking a moment to understand what actually happened on October 7th or understanding it and not caring you are all now part of History”
Israel's moral obligation to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants is both an ethical imperative and strategically necessary, because the rest of the world will judge Israel by impossible standards while applying no such standards to other actors.
“the IDF should do whatever it can to minimize the loss of innocent life and two they should hold themselves to the highest ethical standards because the rest of the world will hold them to Impossible ones”
The U.S. military should have an army of smart people with necessary language skills sowing hatred and confusion among jihadist groups 24 hours a day.
“hopefully we have an army of smart people with the necessary language skills sowing hatred and confusion among jihadist groups 24 hours a day”
The Palestinian problem is intractable because stable peace is not possible without Palestinians ridding themselves of jihadists, and this appears not to be possible.
“in the case of Israel and Palestine the Palestinians have to rid themselves of their jihadists and if that's not possible a stable peace with the Palestinians is not possible”
There are displaced people everywhere on Earth, but only Palestinians have been turned into a global fetish for their so-called right of return, suggesting that the principle is selectively applied based on geopolitical interests.
“there are displaced people everywhere on Earth but only the Palestinians have been turned into a global fetish for their so-called right of return”
There are whole populations throughout the Muslim world that are effectively hostages to religious fanatics who control them, and certainly a large percentage of Palestinians fit this description, as does much of Iran.
“there are whole populations throughout the Muslim world that are effectively hostages to the religious Fanatics that control them and certainly a large percentage of the Palestinians fit that description as does much of Iran”
While Ukraine and China represent serious problems, only jihadism has the power to turn humanity's future into a zombie movie, as jihadists are the only enemy with whom rational compromise is impossible.
“there's the war in Ukraine and the looming possibility of a conflict between the US and China some of these problems appear much bigger than jihadism but they all admit of some rational basis for negotiation and compromise however bad things get with the Russians or the Chinese they are not chanting we love death more than the Americans and Europeans love life only jihadism has the power to turn our future into a zombie movie jihadists are the enemy with whom there is no rational or pragmatic compromise to make ever”
If secular liberals won't create secure borders, Christian fascists will, suggesting that Western failure to combat jihadism will drive right-wing authoritarianism.
“if secular liberals won't create secure borders Christian fascists will there may be two sides to the past but there really aren't two sides to the present”
Understanding the cynical game that the Arab world has played with the Palestinian plight for the last 50 years is important for achieving a stable political settlement between Israel and Palestine.
“there are two sides to the story of how the Palestinians and Jews came to fight over land in the Middle East understanding all of that is important and I think it's important to understand the cynical game that the Arab world has played with the plight of the Palestinians for the last 50 years if there's a stable political settlement to ever be reached between Israel and the Palestinians it will entail a full untangling of the facts from all the propaganda that obscures them”
A Hamas member called his family from the phone of a woman he had just killed, ecstatically recounting that he had killed 10 Jews with his own hands, and his parents responded with pride, demonstrating a culture that teaches Jew hatred and celebrates jihadist violence.
“there's a piece of audio from October 7th that many people have commented on it's a recording of a cell phone call that a member of Hamas made to his family while he was in the process of massacring innocent men women and children the man is ecstatic telling his father and mother and I believe brother that he's just killed 10 Jews with his own hands”
Palestinian culture teaches Jew hatred and love of martyrdom in elementary schools, many of which are funded by the UN.
“we are talking about a culture that teaches Jew hatred and the love of martyrdom in its elementary schools many of which are funded by the UN”
The people killed by Hamas on October 7 were predominantly committed liberals and peace activists—many of whom volunteered to drive sick Palestinians into Israel for medical treatment—making them the most idealistic people in Israel.
“the Jews who were killed on October 7th were for the most part committed liberals and peace activists Hamas killed the sorts of people who volunteer to drive sick Palestinians into Israel for Medical Treatments they murdered the most idealistic people in Israel”
Hamas took sadistic pleasure in torturing and killing non-combatants in ways that should have made it instantly clear to everyone, especially on college campuses, that jihadist groups like Hamas are permanent enemies of civilization.
“Hamas took a sadistic pleasure in torturing and killing non-combatants that should have made it instantly clear to everyone certainly to everyone on a college campus that Jihad groups like Hamas are the permanent enemies of civilization”
The decapitation of enemies practiced by jihadists is not an accident but is found in the Quran and the larger record of Muhammad's life, making it a continuation of Islamic tradition rather than a perversion of it.
“there's certainly no Jesus as we find him in Matthew urging people to love their enemies and turn the other cheek all the decapitation we see being practiced by jihadists isn't an accident it's in the Quran and in the larger record of the life of the Prophet”
Feminist organizations like Code Pink support Hamas despite Hamas's treatment of women as property and second-class citizens under Islamic law, and despite not supporting women's rights activists in countries like Afghanistan where women are imprisoned for showing their hair.
“we've got feminist organizations like code pink going all in for Hamas and accusing the Israelis of genocide do they understand how Hamas treats women did code pink support the women of R who were thrown into prison and even killed for daring to show their hair in public do they realize that women are treated like property throughout the Muslim world”
The claim 'if Palestinians put down their weapons there would be peace but if Israelis put down their weapons there would be genocide' is empirically true based on Hamas's stated goals and capabilities.
“the line you keep hearing from Defenders of Israel that if the Palestinians put down their weapons there would be peace but if the Israelis put down their weapons there would be a genocide happens to be true”
Committed jihadists are not normal antagonists with rational demands; they are not people who want what we want; this is not politics and will never be politics—it is a very long war with no possibility of rational negotiation or compromise.
“we can argue with their sympathizers and we can hope to deradicalize them but we also have to kill committed jihadists these are not normal antagonists with rational demands these are not people people who want what we want this is not politics and it will never be politics it is a very long War”
This call would never have been placed from Vietnam by an American soldier participating in the My Lai massacre, nor would an American family have responded with celebration if it had been—demonstrating a fundamental difference in culture between jihadists and conventional adversaries.
“this is not the type of call that would have been placed from Vietnam by an American who had just participated in the M Li Massacre nor is it the parental reaction one would expect from an American family had their beloved Son just called them from a killing field I mean as terrible as Vietnam was can you imagine a call back to Nebraska mom I killed 10 with my own hands I killed a woman and her husband I'm calling you from the dead woman's phone mom your son is a hero”
Hamas is being celebrated by people around the world who understand exactly what motivated the October 7th attacks, and they see jihadism not as anomalous but as expressing genuine Islamic values.
“they were shouting Allah abbar God is great all day long as they murdered women and children and these people are now being C cated the world over by those who understand exactly what they did yes many of those college kids at Harvard and Stanford and Cornell are just idiots who have a lot to learn about the world but in the Muslim Community and that includes the crowds in London and Sydney and Brooklyn Hamas is being celebrated by people who understand exactly what motivates them”
Christopher Hitchens was extremely critical of Israel and openly supportive of Palestinian statehood but was not confused about the reality of Islamic religious fanaticism or the threat it poses to open societies everywhere.
“my friend Christopher hiin was extremely critical of Israel and openly supportive of Palestinian statehood but he wasn't even slightly confused about the problem of jihad”
Hamas has spent billions of dollars from humanitarian aid meant for Palestinians to construct hundreds of miles of tunnels and fortify them with food, water, and fuel, depriving the Palestinian population of those resources while enabling Hamas to wage jihad.
“Hamas has spent most of gaza's resources billions of dollars in humanitarian Aid meant for the Palestinians building hundreds of miles of tunnels and fortifying them with food and water and fuel so that they could wage Jihad”
Fundamentalist Christians and Orthodox Jews don't tend to be confused about the problem of jihadism because they understand the power of religious beliefs, whereas secular people generally imagine that oppression and humiliation—not sincerely held religious doctrine—explain jihadist violence.
“fundamentalist Christians and Orthodox Jews don't tend to be confused about the problem of jihadism because they understand the power of religious beliefs however secular people generally are we imagine that people everywhere at bottom want”
There have been nearly 50,000 acts of Islamic terrorism in the last 40 years, with 90% occurring in Muslim countries, most having nothing to do with Israel or the Jews; in France there have been 82 attacks and in Pakistan over 2,000 during this period.
“there have nearly 50,000 acts of Islamic terrorism in the last 40 years and the French group that maintains a database of those attacks considers that to be an undercount 90% of them have occurred in Muslim countries most have nothing to do with Israel or the Jews there have been 82 attacks in France and over 2,000 in Pakistan during that period”
Harris argues that the boundary between anti-Semitism and generic moral stupidity is hard to discern and may not be important to find, because what matters is that people cannot distinguish between collateral damage in a necessary war and intentional genocidal sadism celebrated as religious sacrament.
“the boundary between anti-Semitism and generic moral stupidity is a little hard to discern okay and I'm not sure it's always important to find it I'm not sure it matters why a person can't distinguish between collateral damage in a necessary war and conscious acts of genocidal sadism that are celebrated as religious sacrament”
Israel is routinely condemned by the United Nations, yet the UN could not pass a condemnation of Hamas for the atrocities it committed on October 7, which Harris characterizes as anti-Semitism at the level of nations.
“Israel is routinely condemned by the United Nations and yet the UN could not pass a condemnation of Hamas for the atrocities it committed on October 7th if this isn't anti-Semitism at the level of Nations I don't know what to call it”
Hamas attacked Israel on October 7th, killing approximately 1,500 people and taking over 200 hostages.
“Hamas attacked Israel killing around 1500 people and taking over 200 hostages”
In 2014, six jihadis affiliated with the Pakistani Taliban—from China, Afghanistan, and Arabia—attacked a school in Peshawar, murdered 145 people (132 children), burned a teacher alive in front of students, and killed all children they could reach, with no hostages, no demands, and explicit intent to achieve martyrdom.
“in 2014 six jihadis affiliated with the Pakistani Taliban attacked a school in Pasha these jihadis came from outside of Pakistan there was a chin and two Afghans and three Arabs they murdered 145 people 132 of whom were children they burned a teacher alive in front of her students and then killed all the children they could get their hands on they didn't take any hostages they had no List of Demands they intended to die to achieve martyrdom”
The St. Louis, a ship carrying over 900 Jews seeking to escape the Holocaust in 1939, was denied entry into Cuba, the United States, and Canada, and was forced to return to Europe where many of those Jews ended up in Nazi concentration camps.
“in 1939 the SS St Louis a ship carrying over 900 Jews seeking to escape the Holocaust was denied entry into Cuba and the United States and Canada and then forced to return to Europe where many of those Jews ended up in the ovens of ashwoods”
Israel's extensive bombing and ground invasion of Gaza may be a strategic mistake even though Israel has a clear need to retaliate against and destroy Hamas, because alternative approaches such as humanitarian corridors combined with siege tactics could have achieved the same military objective with fewer Palestinian civilian casualties.
“like many people I'm concerned that the extensive bombing and now invasion of Gaza could be a mistake I'm not saying Israel doesn't have to retaliate and Destroy Hamas they clearly do”
Many college students at Harvard, Stanford, and Cornell understand exactly what motivated Hamas and are celebrating them anyway, unlike some who are simply ignorant, suggesting deliberate ideological alignment rather than just confusion.
“yes many of those college kids at Harvard and Stanford and Cornell are just idiots who have a lot to learn about the world but in the Muslim Community and that includes the crowds in London and Sydney and Brooklyn Hamas is being celebrated by people who understand exactly what motivates them”
When 100,000 people show up in the center of London in support of Hamas, we have a problem, and it is an open question how many truly support jihad, but imagining that very few do is pure delusion.
“when 100,000 people show up in the center of London in support of Hamas we have a problem of course it's an open question how many of those people really support Jihad but imagining that very few of them do is pure delusion”
Ordinary Palestinians, not just Hamas members, appear to have taken part in the torture and murder of Israelis on October 7, and the percentage of Palestinians who support these acts is likely alarming.
“not only members of Hamas but ordinary gin appear to have taken part in the torture and murder of innocent Israelis and The Taking of hostages how many did this how many ordinary Gins were dancing in the streets and spitting on the captured women and girls who were paraded before them after having been raped and tortured what percentage of Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank support what they did on October 7th with a clear conscience based on what they believe about Jews and the ethics of jihad I don't know but I am sure that the answers to these questions would be quite alarming”
Any stable political settlement between Israel and Palestine will require sidelining the religious lunatics on the Jewish side.
“it will also entail that the religious lunatics on the Jewish side get sidelined”
Hamas put its headquarters under a hospital in Gaza, and tells Palestinians to stay in place and prevents them from leaving, so they will be killed by Israeli bombs, using their own people as human shields.
“Hamas put its headquarters in Gaza under a hospital let me say that again Hamas put its headquarters in Gaza under a hospital again imagine the Jews of Israel doing that and imagine how little it would matter to Hamas if they did Hamas is telling people to stay in place in Gaza and even physically preventing them from leaving so that they will be killed by Israeli bombs they're using their own people as human shields”
There are two sides to the past history of how Palestinians and Jews came to conflict over Middle Eastern land, but there are not two sides to the present regarding the immediate conflict.
“there may be two sides to the past but there really aren't two sides to the present”
At least 260 people were murdered at the Supernova music festival in the most sadistically gruesome ways possible—decapitated, burned alive, blown up with grenades—in what Harris characterizes as Vikings showing up at Burning Man and butchering everyone.
“I mean just think about what happened at the Supernova music festival at least 260 people were murdered in the most sadistically gruesome ways possible decapitated burned alive blown up with grenades and from the jihadis side this wasn't an error”
If someone wondered whether they would have resisted the slide of society into depravity had they been a German on the morning after Kristallnacht, they are now getting a chance to see how they would behave, through their response to the anti-Semitism following October 7.
“if you ever wondered how you might have behaved had you been a German on the morning after Crystal knocked if you ever wondered whether you would have just gone about your business or done something something to resist the slide of your Society into absolute depravity more or less everyone on Earth is now getting a chance to see just that”
Harris holds the paradoxical position that Israel should not exist as a Jewish state because organizing a state around a religion is irrational and divisive, a principle he applies equally to Muslim states, Christian states, and Jewish states.
“I've always had a paradoxical position on Israel I've said that I don't think it should exist as a Jewish State because in my view organizing a state around a religion is irrational and divisive okay this follows directly from My Views about organized religion in general so obviously I don't think there should be Muslim states either or Christian ones for that matter”
Harris has previously believed that anti-Semitism in the West was a problem he could tolerate and that it was essentially behind the Jewish community, but the post-October 7 global outpouring of anti-Semitic hatred has changed his assessment.
“as I said the American left would have you believe that islamophobia is a major concern I have always believed that it was tolerable and I say this as someone who has received death threats for two decades and many of these threats are often explicitly anti-semitic even given all of this I have felt that anti-Semitism as a real threat to Jews certainly the West was behind us I can't say that now”
In the last few weeks, Jews have been openly reviled and threatened all over the world in the immediate aftermath of the most shocking atrocities committed against them since the Holocaust, leading Harris to conclude that anything is possible regarding the threat to Jewish security.
“in the last few weeks with Jews being openly reviled and threatened all over the world in the immediate aftermath of the most shocking atrocities committed against them since the Holocaust I've begun to think that anything is possible”
We can do our best to lower the temperature now and expect the news cycle to move to other stories like Russia, China, climate change, or AI alignment, but the problem of jihadism and sympathy for it is not going away and must be dealt with.
“of course we can do our best to turn the temperature down now and we can trust that the news cycle will get captured by another story we can direct our attention again to Russia or China or climate change or AI alignment and I will do that on this podcast but the problem of jihadism and the much wider problem of sympathy for it isn't going away and civilized people non-muslim and Muslim alike have to deal with it”
Vice President Kamala Harris is now heading a commission on Islamophobia in America, despite the fact that Jews are disproportionately targeted with hate crimes.
“vice president kamla Harris is now heading a commission on islamophobia in America as so that's the problem we've been seeing in recent weeks just a massive outpouring of hatred for Muslims in America by non-muslims has that ever happened”
Harris is not xenophobic but rather xenophilic, and his criticisms of jihadism concern jihadist ideology and beliefs, not the ethnic or racial origins of Muslims.
“do not mistake what I'm saying now for anti-muslim bigotry I'm talking about the consequences of ideas not the ethnic origins of people not a word I've said or will ever say on this topic has anything to do with race and the truth is I'm not even remotely xenophobic I'm a xenophile”
Harris criticized Lex Fridman for platforming Kanye West, asking how that decision looks now given Kanye's subsequent anti-Semitic statements.
“I also criticized Lex Friedman for platforming Kanye how does that decision look now”