What’s Actually Breaking America — with David Brooks | Prof G Conversations

Algorithms with profit motives have figured out that creating distrust between people is profitable; 40% of the S&P 500 has vested interest in dividing Americans by exploiting algorithmic platforms designed to maximize engagement through conflict and divisiveness.

“the culprit around the erosion in trust and faith in our institutions is that we have attached a profit motive to algorithms who figured out a way to get us to mistrust each other... 40% of the S&P has a vested interest in dividing us.”

Intrinsic desires (things you love doing) drive behavior more powerfully than extrinsic incentives; paying people to do things can make them regard the activity as work and paradoxically reduce motivation and effort.

“what matters is your intrinsic desires and ext incentives to me feel like exttrinsic desires like a performance pay plan sounds like an exttrinsic desire and I think one of the things the research shows if you pay kids to read they'll begin to regard reading as work uh and do less of it”

The number of mass killings in the US in 2025 has been remarkably low, and broad crime and suicide rates are down, so recent violent incidents should not be extrapolated to suggest a general increase in violence or that society has 'entered a new age of violence.'

“The number of mass killings in the US in 2025 was had been remarkably low. Uh, and so it's not like we've I don't think it's fair to say we've entered a new age of violence. If you look at murder rates, they're down. You look at suicide rates, they're down.”

One in three men under 30 has not had sex in the last year, and only 27% of households have a child at age 30 compared to 60% historically, indicating a collapse in relationship formation and family formation among young adults.

“One in three men under the age of 30 hasn't had sex in the last year and 60% of households used to have a kid at 30 Now it's 27%.”

Marriage significantly predicts happiness for liberal women—96% of married liberal women report happiness compared to 66% of unmarried women, though marriage is not necessary for happiness and singleness can produce good lives, the odds favor marriage as a contributor to well-being.

“I saw a study I think the in in the institute for family studies um that among liberal liberal women who get married 96% say they're happy and among unmarried 66%. So it doesn't mean you're going to be unhappy if you're unmarried.”

Universities now reject 96% of applicants and elite firms like Goldman Sachs receive 300,000 applications for 3,000 internships, creating a vicious competition where the sheer volume of qualified applicants makes success seem impossible despite qualifications being adequate.

“Universities rejecting 96% and then at Goldman they have 3,000 internships every summer but 300,000 apply”

Mass killings in the US in 2025 have been remarkably low, and overall murder and suicide rates are down, suggesting current violence is not indicative of entering a new age of violence despite recent tragic incidents.

“The number of mass killings in the US in 2025 was had been remarkably low. Uh, and so it's not like we've I don't think it's fair to say we've entered a new age of violence. If you look at murder rates, they're down. You look at suicide rates, they're down.”

Young people feel the American dream is dead and that the old model of 'work hard and get ahead' is broken; 70% of Americans overall say the American dream is dead, though some economic data suggest outcomes may be better than perception.

“young people feel that the American dream is dead and uh some in my own family and that the old model if you work hard you get ahead. Uh that just that's broken. And there are some studies that show 70% of Americans overall say the American dream is dead.”

Much progressive planning and large projects of the 20th century backfired because no one is smart enough to navigate complex social change without unintended consequences

“I think a lot of the planning that progressives did and the plan big projects that the progressives did over the course of the 20th century, a lot of them just backfired because no one is smart enough to to ma navigate complex change.”

The interviewer believes a significant failure of progressives is creating incentive systems through high social service spending that discourage work and risk-taking, resulting in a smaller tax base and downward spiral; Brooks partially agrees but emphasizes intrinsic motivation over incentives.

“Do you think that part of the failure of progressives is that we've uh in an attempt to grab social virtue and show empathy for our brothers and our sisters that we've created an incentive system that creates a smaller tax base and slowly but surely inspires this downward spiral?”

The root cause of trust decline is social disconnection: shrinking family size, shrinking friendship circles, and reduced civic participation, not primarily algorithmic division.

“I think it's mostly it's social disconnection. Uh it's shrinking family size. It's shrinking friendship circles. Uh etc. etc.”

Some lonely young men express their despair through mass killing—essentially suicide while taking others—while others express it through radicalization and political action; both are responses to feeling invisible and rejected.

“So some I would say some of the lonely young men do the they basically want to commit suicide and take others with them when they go. That's basically what a mass killing is. Uh and so there there's that segment, but there's another segment that's reacting.”

Trust travels at the speed of relationship, which is slow, but norms can shift rapidly; if you can identify weavers, support them, and give them platforms to tell stories, you can shift norms about community behavior at scale.

“trust travels at the at the speed of relationship. Uh and that's slow. Uh but if you can shift norms, you can really produce big change all at once.”

Liberalism grew up in power (during the New Deal when Democrats controlled levers of government) and developed a programmatic, economic approach to problems; conservatism grew up out of power and developed a more philosophical orientation.

“modern liberalism grew up in the New Deal when there was levers of power that Democrats controlled that they could advance their agenda. Conservatism more or less grew up out of power.”

The human brain operates on comparison culture; young people encounter faux wealth imagery 210 times daily via social media, making them feel they are failing even when objectively doing well, creating a crisis of relative deprivation.

“It's where it's a comparison culture and every day 210 times a day young people have faux wealth vomited on them and it makes them feel that if I'm not in a visa at a rave or on a Gulfream I'm failing even if I'm quote unquote doing okay.”

Over-parenting and 'concierge parenting' are creating a generation of people who are discouraged from taking real risks, leading to a crisis where young people believe one failure means their life is derailed.

“we're trying to create and I think it's through over parenting quite frankly concierge parenting that we're creating a generation of people and encouraging them not to take any real risks... the college students I teach certainly often believe that if uh I have one failure then my life is derailed.”

Young men in the alt-right seek dangerous, romantic, and manly strong positions partly to shock bourgeois elites and progressives; this creates a self-radicalization cycle where you must keep upping the dosage (more extreme positions) because audiences demand purer ideology.

“with that goes true fanaticism because if you're trying to trying to shock the bourgeoisi, the weaklings, the elites, the uh one of the things you wanted to do is have a strong position and you want it to be somewhat dangerous and romantic and manly. And so then you had that love for Rome, Roman Empire that spread throughout the alt-right, but it's inevitably going to lead you to conspiracy theories.”

The book 'The Return of the Strong Gods' argues that after World War II people feared strong belief would produce Nazis, so they adopted weak belief (Popper's open society); the reaction against weak belief seeks strong gods, strong nations, and strong men, but inevitably leads to fanaticism and conspiracy.

“There's a book by a guy named Rusty Reno called uh The Return of the Strong Gods. And his argument was that after World War II people wanted weak belief because they thought strong belief produces the Nazis. And so they went for weak belief... And so there's a reaction against that to have strong gods, strong nation, strong man, uh strong orthodox faith.”

Young people increasingly avoid dating because 'professionalization has become urgent carve out'—they don't have time to date because they prioritize career building, but research shows that marriage quality is more important than career quality in determining happiness, so this prioritization is misaligned with actual sources of well-being.

“The second thing that's happened is uh professionalization has become an urgent carve out. Uh, and so my students would always tell me, 'I don't have time to date. I'm just too busy.' And I would tell them, 'You're doing it wrong. One of, you know, the data is pretty clear that the quality of your marriage is more important than the quality of your career in determining your happiness.'”

The year 2013 marks a critical inflection point in American social decline, coinciding with when social media moved onto mobile platforms, and also with the rise of populism globally.

“You say you use a date since 2013 and that's about the time that social went on mobile. It's very hard to look at the social indicators which turns out at the same time and not think it has something to do with social media on mobile but it was also a time... If you look at the rise of populism both on the left and the right, it dates to about that time.”

Archduke Franz Ferdinand, a 19-year-old, started World War I, illustrating how a single marginalized young man can alter history; this demonstrates the stakes of young male alienation.

“A 19year-old. Anyway, sorry. Go Right. A 19year-old. Anyway, sorry. Go Right. And and so if society hates me, I'm going to hate right back... Started World War I.”

Reed Montagu is a scientist who studies the power of touch and has demonstrated that touch has tremendous calming effects; apes and other primate ancestors constantly touch each other as a core social behavior.

“There's a guy a scientist named Reed Monu who studies this and he studies how powerful touch is. When you look at uh our nearest animal ancestors, apes and such, they're constantly touching each other. It just has a tremendous calming effect.”

The primary cause of institutional and interpersonal distrust is the 'profit motive attached to algorithms' that have figured out how to monetize division: major tech platforms (40% of S&P 500) have inverted incentives where profitability increases with user distrust and polarization—they're deliberately engineering social breakdown for profit.

“The culprit around the erosion in trust and faith in our institutions is that we have attached a profit motive to algorithms who figured out a way to get us to mistrust each other... We've created porest platforms and an algorithm and attached a profit incentive that's gotten so big it may be the dominant force in our economy that has an sees an inverse correlation between trust and profitability.”

Contemporary Democrats have abandoned education reform (a historical Democratic priority under Clinton and Obama) to the Republicans, who are now winning on education policy—Southern Republican states (Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia) are making educational gains while California, a rich state, has only 28% of Black kids reading at grade level compared to Mississippi's 58%.

“Democrats like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama wanted education reform. And now the Democrats Kla Harris basically do not have an education plank... the best education states... are Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, uh, Florida, Georgia... In California, 28% of black kids are reading at grade level. 28%. In Mississippi, a much poorer state, 58% of black kids are reading at grade level.”

Despite increasing school funding, test scores are dropping rapidly, and extra money given to poor families doesn't improve long-term outcomes (graduation rates, future income) unless combined with work ethic from parents—work ethic combined with resources is necessary, not resources alone.

“We've thrown a lot increasingly more money at schools and scores are dropping rapidly... If you give a for poor family money, they're better off... But what you were hoping... was that their long-term uh outcomes would be different... that's not true. That doesn't happen... if you come from a poor family and have parents with an extremely strong work ethic, you're probably going to do okay.”

Since 2013, there has been a shift toward distrust, isolation, and social pain that has not been evenly distributed—college-educated people live 15 years longer than those with only high school degrees and are much less likely to die of opioid overdose or report having no friends.

“Something has happened, I think, since 2013. We've just entered dark world... distrust. It's isolation. And as you write about and talk about a lot, uh the pain of this moment is not distributed equally. People with college degrees uh live 15 years longer than people with high school degrees. They're much less likely to die of opioid. Uh they're much less likely to say they have no friends.”

There are two kinds of freedom: freedom from restraint (no rules/restrictions) and freedom to do hard things (mastery through discipline), with the second achieved by accepting constraints like practicing piano

“But in my view, there there are two kinds of freedom. the freedom of no restraint, which is the way a lot of people define freedom now. But another kind of freedom is the freedom to do hard things. So if I want the freedom to play the piano, I have to chain myself down to the piano bench and practice. And in that sense, sometimes it's your chains to set you free.”

Purpose involves deciding to give more than you get from a thing or a person, and the speaker's purpose is raising patriotic loving men without expecting equivalent return

“I think of my purpose is I want to raise patriotic loving men. And what that means is my purpose is I just don't get as much back from my boys as they get from me. And I know that sounds terrible, but that's my purpose.”

Modern culture values autonomy and freedom of choice ('keep my options open') while commitment requires closing options, representing a fundamental cultural conflict about the meaning of freedom

“the act of commitment making is a bit countercultural today because we live in a culture that values autonomy a lot of freedom of choice. Keep my options open. Keep my options open. And commitment is about closing options.”

Marx's theory of material determinism—that material conditions determine consciousness—has influenced progressivism to believe that solving material problems (poverty, hunger) will solve behavioral/relational problems, but consciousness also influences material conditions, and the causal arrow goes both ways; this leads progressives to believe 'throwing money at problems' will solve them, which has failed.

“Marxism... material conditions determine consciousness... as a conservative I think consciousness has a large influence on material conditions or at least the ar the causal arrow goes both ways... it was very easy both in the great society uh and in the years to believe if we just throw money at a problem then that'll go a long way to solving it. And that has failed in my view”

Consciousness has large influence on material conditions, or at least causal arrows go both ways; Brooks rejects pure material determinism and argues that consciousness, values, and moral culture shape outcomes as much as economic conditions.

“as a conservative I think consciousness has a large influence on material conditions or at least the ar the causal arrow goes both ways and so it was very easy both in the great society”

Young men without college degrees are particularly vulnerable: they experience widespread deprivation of affectionate touch, with large numbers going weeks or months without any physical contact like hugs, kisses, or gentle touch, which is a symptom of deeper malaise despite being easily overlooked.

“And guys, in particular, are getting hammered. And so if you're a single male without a college degree, your rate of having an affectionate touch, how many times somebody hugs you or kisses you or just a gentle pat, large numbers of young guys go through weeks and weeks and weeks without an affectionate touch. And that may seem like a trivial thing, but a I do not think it is.”

Consumer sentiment is currently worse than its lowest point in the Biden administration, with University of Michigan consumer sentiment data showing people through the floor with anxiety

“consumer sentiment is worse now than its lowest uh point in the Biden administration. Uh how do you view economic anxiety as as part of this political crisis? Do you think that um you write about authoritarian figures that they create their own realities akin to performance artists? What try and how do you think people will look back on this moment in terms of what it means for broader society? Well, in terms I think I think we're just in a moment of extreme anxiety. Uh and and that feeds in over negative economic sentiment even when I think econ if you look at the University of Michigan consumer data in information consumer sentiment is through the floor.”

Walt Disney's approach to making Snow White—hiring artists and art historians for three years of preparation, teaching cartoonists to draw like Michelangelo, bringing in Frank Lloyd Wright to discuss lines, working seven days a week on design—made no economic sense but was driven by desire to do the thing he loved.

“when he was making Snow White the first fulllength feature animated movie he he hired artists and art historians to come to Disney studios and teach his draw his cartoonists to draw like Michelangelo and Rambr runs and people like that. And he he worked on this movie three years before even drawing this first cell”

The four fundamental commitments young adults should make in their 20s-40s are: (1) to a vocation/career, (2) to a philosophy or faith/worldview, (3) to family, (4) to a community, and the quality of life is determined by the quality of these commitments and how well they're honored—commitment is countercultural because it means closing off options, but it's necessary for freedom.

“Every young person, not every everyone, but most are going to make four fundamental commitments in the course of their 20s or maybe up to 35 or 40. a commitment to a vocation with a career, a commitment to a philosophy or faith, a worldview they can believe in and hang their guide their life by. Um, some kind of family uh and to a community and the quality of your life will be determined by the quality of the commitments you make and how you live up to those commitments.”

Every young person will typically make four fundamental commitments in their 20s through 40s: a commitment to a vocation/career, a commitment to a philosophy or faith/worldview, a commitment to family, and a commitment to community; the quality of life is determined by the quality of these commitments.

“most are going to make four fundamental commitments in the course of their 20s or maybe up to 35 or 40. a commitment to a vocation with a career, a commitment to a philosophy or faith, a worldview they can believe in and hang their guide their life by. Um, some kind of family uh and to a community and the quality of your life will be determined by the quality of the commitments you make and how you live up to those commitments.”

People become entrepreneurs when it seems challenging and cool to be entrepreneurs; culture matters more than incentives in determining behavior and aspirations.

“I think people will become entrepreneurs when it seems challenging and cool to be entrepreneurs.”

Much of the online abuse directed at public figures comes from bot accounts or accounts with foreign national interest in dividing America, not from authentic human users, creating false impression of widespread antipathy.

“I'll find that half of them, especially the really vile ones, are dogm 312 with three followers. It's a bot meant to create engagement or from someone who sees a vested intern or national interest in dividing America”

National service would be valuable because 1) people would experience the satisfaction of giving, 2) it would force cross-regional mixing (Berkeley to Birmingham), and 3) it would help address social distrust by creating shared experience.

“I mean, it's astounding to me that uh it uh doesn't, you know, it's not there because all you have to do is mention if you're talking to a group of people and you mention the phrase national service, you get applause, spontaneous applause. And I think we all have a sense we would be better off. A people have a sense of purpose if they got experienced the sensation of giving. B, it would be great if somebody from Berkeley, California mets had to room with somebody from Birmingham, Alabama.”

The best way to predict the future used to be 'make it' (ego-driven, action-oriented), but Brooks now thinks the best way is to look at incentives, since incentive structures drive behavior

“I used to think the best way to predict the future was to make it which is sort of this ego-driven actionorientation like Tarzan uh trope but I now think it's the best way to predict the future is to look at incentives and do you believe that”

Sisters of Watts is an organization of neighborhood moms who do whatever their community needs—fill backpacks with food for hungry kids, clean empty lots, provide showers to homeless—representing the weaver ethos

“I was in Watts and I ran into an organization called Sisters of Watts and it was just like a bunch of moms and they did whatever the neighborhood needed. So if the kids were going home hungry, they had backpacks filled with food to send them home with. They cleaned up the the empty lots. They gave showers to the homeless. They just did what the community needed.”

Young people think marriage is a box that comes in the mail at 35, but relationship-building is a skill requiring practice and repertoire developed over years of dating to become a good partner

“I once had a student tell me, you know, marriage is a box that'll come in the mail when I'm 35. And I was like, wrong. It's it's very important to learn how to do relations. I don't advise getting married in college. The statistics show you should wait till 25. Um, but uh it's really helps to have had a whole repertoire of relationships so you're able to be a good partner to somebody and it takes practice just like anything else and it takes skill building.”

Purpose can be understood as willingness to give more than you receive from something or someone; the interviewer's purpose is raising 'patriotic loving men' and he explicitly receives less from his boys than they receive from him.

“My purpose is I want to raise patriotic loving men... What that means is my purpose is I just don't get as much back from my boys as they get from me... The whole point of parenting in my view or of purpose is you decide to just give more than you're going to get from this thing or this person.”

A commitment is falling in love with something and then building a structure of behavior around it for when love falters; examples include Jews keeping kosher despite secularism (structure for faith), and married couples maintaining legal/religious bonds despite fluctuating emotional love.

“a commitment is falling in love with something and then building a structure of behavior around it for when love falters. So Jews love their God, but they keep kosher just in case. Keep them on the straight and narrow. I love my wife, but we have a a legal and religious marital bond between us.”

Something fundamental has shifted since 2013 in American society toward a 'dark world' characterized primarily by distrust and isolation, creating unequal pain: people with college degrees live 15 years longer than those with high school degrees, are much less likely to die of opioid overdose, and much less likely to report having no friends.

“Something has happened, I think, since 2013. We've just entered dark world... dark world is distrust. It's isolation. And as you write about and talk about a lot, the pain of this moment is not distributed equally. People with college degrees uh live 15 years longer than people with high school degrees. They're much less likely to die of opioid. Uh they're much less likely to say they have no friends.”

Young people are plagued by anxiety and depression because they lack a sense of purpose; the ability to love others or something (not self-focused but other-focused) is directly connected to purpose, and purpose requires giving more than you receive from the endeavor.

“I've seen some recent studies trying to understand why young people are so anxious and depressed. And a lot of it is uh they claim they have no purpose... the whole point of parenting in my view or of purpose is you decide to just give more than you're going to get from this thing or this person.”

There exists an 'upward spiral' of trust as an alternative to the death spiral: people who lead with trust—exaggeratedly trusting others even at the risk of betrayal—find that people reciprocate trustworthiness, creating positive feedback loops that improve relationships and increase overall trust.

“You can have the death upward spiral of people who behave trustingly find that people are trustworthy so they trust them more. So their relationships improve and they have more trust and more trust... if you lead with trust, most of the time people will behave in trustworthy ways.”

The Weave project (social fabric project) identifies and supports 'weavers' in communities through financial support, storytelling on media, and bringing weavers together, with the goal of shifting cultural norms around what neighbors do through modeling: culture changes when a small group finds a better way to live and others copy.

“The project is called Weave, the social fabric project. And we just go to towns and we say, 'Who's trusted here?' And people list names... we give financial support to weavers so they'll be more effective and we we give them access to each other... A culture changes when a small group of people find a better way to live and the rest of us copy.”

For norms to shift effectively, they require both bottom-up and top-down support: change must start from ground-up with community exemplars, but also requires top-down reinforcement from leadership—it's very difficult to build trust from the ground up when leadership is actively destroying it.

“It has to start at the ground up, but it also has to happen to the top down. It's really hard to build trust to the ground up when somebody in the White House is trying to destroy it every day from the top down.”

Young men are avoiding the risk and friction of real relationships by choosing frictionless versions (apps, phones, online); this prevents them from developing 'scar tissue' and the confidence that comes from recovering from rejection, which then makes them risk-averse in other domains (applying for jobs they're not qualified for, approaching strangers, taking ambitious bets).

“I worry that a lot of young men choose a frictionless, risk-free version of relationships and never develop the scar tissue or the calluses or the confidence to know if I apply for a job I'm not qualified for or apply to a college I'm not I'm not I don't have the credentials or approach a stranger and express romantic interest who might be perceived out of my way class that if it doesn't work I'm going to be fine.”

National service is a solution that would have broad popular support (people applaud spontaneously when it's mentioned) and would serve multiple functions: giving young people a sense of purpose through experiencing giving, forcing interaction between geographically and culturally divided Americans (e.g., Berkeley, California resident rooming with Birmingham, Alabama resident).

“I mean, it's astounding to me that uh it uh doesn't, you know, it's not there because all you have to do is mention if you're talking to a group of people and you mention the phrase national service, you get applause, spontaneous applause. And I think we all have a sense we would be better off. A people have a sense of purpose if they got experienced the sensation of giving. B, it would be great if somebody from Berkeley, California mets had to room with somebody from Birmingham, Alabama. It would just be fantastic.”

The rise of populist movements (both left and right) and the rise of social media on mobile platforms both date to approximately 2013, but while social media likely contributed to populism, it was likely only a partial cause; the core epicenter of social breakdown is a slow but fundamental transfer of wealth from young to old through fiscal policy where older voters consistently vote themselves more money.

“I think it's a chaser effect. I think the core though the epicenter of the earthquake is a transfer a slow but elegant transfer of wealth from young to old and that economic procarity across young people is bad for men and women but it's especially hard on young men who are unduly evaluated based on their economic viability.”

When people feel 'unseen' by their leaders—when a leader tells them to 'get by on two dollars' while they're spending $179 at the grocery store—they rationally become more distrustful, because feeling unseen indicates lack of empathy and recognition, which violates the relational basis of trust.

“If there's one thing Americans want right now, it's to be seen by their leaders. And when they go to the supermarket and they buy like a medium amount and they walk out of there with $179 bill and he says buy two dolls there people are going to feel unseen. And that's part of uh what's happened here.”

America is becoming 'basically a trading platform' where the primary goal is getting rich, and character is subordinated to economic success; the country is 'losing almost any sense of self around what it means to be a society' and character/grit are conflated with bank account size.

“America is basically becoming a trading platform. It's like losing almost any sense of self around what it means to be a society. We're just a trading platform to try and get rich is and it you know character seems to take in a distant second and character and grit are conflated with the size of your bank account.”

Older generations have systematically voted themselves more money at the expense of younger generations, and resources that should go to young people 'on the way up' have instead gone to elderly people 'on the way out,' which is a stupid way to run a country.

“we have basically taken money that should be going to young people on the way up and we've given it to people who are dying or old on the way out. Uh and that's just a stupid way to run the country”

Since 2013, there has been a simultaneous rise in both social pain and conspiracy theory, with anti-semitism accompanying conspiratorial thinking, particularly when coded language like 'globalize the intifada' is used to frame political conflict.

“since 2013 we've not only seen the rise of social pain we've seen the rise of conspiracy theory and what inevitably accompanies that is anti-semitism”

Despite perceptions of decline, millennials and Gen Z have higher real wages than Boomers and Gen X at the same ages, and have different (not uniformly worse) home ownership rates, with the median wage now at approximately $88,000—the highest in American history.

“Millennial and Gen Z have higher wheel real wages than Boomer and Gen X at the same age. Uh, and they have not two different home ownership rates. And we're now in a moment where we have the highest median uh wages in American history. It's about 88,000 bucks.”

Historical examples show norms can shift rapidly: in the 1970s littering was normalized but shifted to being abnormal; smoking norms shifted similarly; the Me Too movement shifted norms around sexual harassment, showing that coordinated norm-shifting is possible.

“in the '7s we shifted norms around littering and it used to be perfectly fine to litter and then it was not. Then we shifted norms about smoking. The me too movement shifted norms about sexual abuse and harassment and you can shift norms.”

Contemporary culture values autonomy and keeping options open, but there are two kinds of freedom: the freedom of no restraint and the freedom to do hard things; true freedom requires chains—playing piano requires chaining yourself to the piano bench, and constraints enable rather than restrict flourishing.

“commitment is about closing options. But in my view, there there are two kinds of freedom. the freedom of no restraint, which is the way a lot of people define freedom now. But another kind of freedom is the freedom to do hard things. So if I want the freedom to play the piano, I have to chain myself down to the piano bench and practice. And in that sense, sometimes it's your chains to set you free.”

Brooks maintains that all voters are reasonable, and the defection of 15-25% of Trump voters from Trump suggests that reasonableness prevails

“I do I've maintained that all voters are reasonable and that suggests a lot of Republicans are are walking away from Trump.”

Authoritarianism can be measured by 'how high the price is to oppose it'—lower price means weaker authoritarianism; institutions and voters appear more willing to push back against Trump, suggesting the dam may be beginning to burst and his coalition is fraying at the edges.

“You said you could measure authoritarianism by how high the price is to oppose it... It's clearly fraying. I mean, there's just been a lot of negative news for Trump in the last time.”

People become entrepreneurs when it seems challenging and cool to be entrepreneurs, driven by cultural perception and appeal, not just financial incentives

“I think people will become entrepreneurs when it seems challenging and cool to be entrepreneurs.”

Young women don't pick up AR-15s or start revolutions—the violence and instability comes specifically from marginal young men, making gender a key analytical variable in understanding violence

“it's not to say that it's not terrible for young women, but young women don't pick up AR-15s or start revolutions typically. I mean, they're they're part of the movement, but I would argue the most unstable violent societies in the world all have the same thing in common, and that is a disproportionate number of young men”

Social risk aversion has settled into American culture as distrust has increased; asking someone out or falling in love is an enormous risk that people now avoid through phone-based technology that provides constant validation without risk.

“I think there is some sort of social risk aversion that has settled as we've come to be more distrustful. And then the second thing that's happened is uh professionalization has become an urgent carve out. Uh, and so my students would always tell me, 'I don't have time to date. I'm just too busy.' ... You're doing it wrong. One of, you know, the data is pretty clear that the quality of your marriage is more important than the quality of your career in determining your happiness.”

Politicians don't want power; they want to keep their jobs, and they're happy to give power to agencies, the president, and party leaders to protect their positions; Congress is run by four people (speaker, majority leader, minority leader in both chambers) while others are powerless.

“One of the things I was taught in political science class is that people go into politics because they want power. But I've learned in as a journalist people don't want power. Even politicians don't want power. They're happy to give away power if they can keep their jobs. And so they give power to the agencies. They give power to the president and they give power to the party leaders. So Congress is run by four people. The speaker, the majority leader, the minority leader and the the the Senate and House minority leaders.”

Young men today are choosing frictionless, risk-free versions of relationships and relationships, avoiding rejection, and in doing so they fail to develop the 'scar tissue' and confidence that comes from surviving rejection and disappointment.

“I worry that a lot of young men choose a frictionless, risk-free version of relationships and never develop the scar tissue or the calluses or the confidence to know if I apply for a job I'm not qualified for or apply to a college I'm not I'm not I don't have the credentials or approach a stranger and express romantic interest who might be perceived out of my way class that if it doesn't work I'm going to be fine.”

Young single males without college degrees are experiencing acute social isolation, with large numbers going weeks without affectionate touch (hugging, kissing, gentle contact), which reflects a deeper crisis of disconnection and loneliness.

“And guys, in particular, are getting hammered. And so if you're a single male without a college degree, your rate of having an affectionate touch, how many times somebody hugs you or kisses you or just a gentle pat, large numbers of young guys go through weeks and weeks and weeks without an affectionate touch.”

The disconnect between positive economic data for young people and their negative perception stems from a shift in available pathways: there used to be nine clear career paths (teacher, doctor, nurse, lawyer, cop, etc.) with defined steps, but now there are a million jobs but no clear pathways, making the landscape chaotic.

“when I was getting out of college, it felt like there were like nine jobs there. You could be a teacher, a doctor, nurse, lawyer, cop, whatever. Now it feels there are a million jobs. And when I was getting out of college, there were pathways to uh the right jobs. And it was there was a clear steps you took... Now I feel those pathways are gone or worse there are fewer pathways.”

In a just society there are many mountaintops with different paths depending on abilities and tastes, but contemporary society has collapsed pathways into one mountaintop, requiring selective college admission and jobs at top firms (Goldman Sachs, Bain), creating fierce competition where universities reject 96% of applicants.

“In a just society the there are many mountain tops and different people got to climb different mountain tops depending on their abilities or tastes. But now we've rendered into one mountaintop. You have to get into a selective college. you have to get a job at a very small number of firms like Goldman Sachs or or whatever Bane and that's the one route and so you have millions of people trying to get into that route and so suddenly you have universities rejecting 96%”

Young people claim they have no purpose, and this is connected to the inability to find outlets for love; the healthiest people have a purpose where they give more than they receive.

“I've seen some recent studies trying to understand why young people are so anxious and depressed. And a lot of it is uh they claim they have no purpose. And I sort of for the first time kind of made that connection to what you were just saying that the ability to love others or love something.”

A woman in Florida who helped kids cross the street after school and brought food to hospital patients claimed she had 'no time to volunteer' but didn't see her actions as volunteering—she saw them as 'what neighbors do'; this illustrates how redefining what it means to be a neighbor could shift norms toward greater community care.

“We ran into a lady in Florida and she was helping kids across the street after elementary school one in the afternoon and we asked her, 'Do you have time to volunteer in your neighborhood?' And she said, 'Nope, I have no time.' And she said, we said, 'Well, are you getting paid to do this?' And she said, 'No, but I help the kids cross the street after school cuz it'll be safer for them.' Uh, and then we said, 'What do you do the rest of the day?' And she said, 'Well, on Thursdays I take food to the hospital so the patients love some nicer food to eat.' And we said, 'Do you have time to volunteer in your neighborhood?' and she said, 'No, I have no time.' And she didn't see this as volunteering. She just saw it as what neighbors do.”

Basic social skills—asking for forgiveness, listening well, being a great conversationalist, how to break up with someone considerately—have become neglected in contemporary culture; young men may not even know they are supposed to have the decency to call someone and have a breakup conversation rather than ghosting.

“These are basic social skills that we have not passed on... How to ask for an offer for forgiveness. uh how to listen really well to somebody, how to be a great conversationalist... A decent person has a breakup conversation. And as important, no one had taught them that it's possible to break up with someone without crushing their heart at least more than is necessary.”

Trump-voting young men rank having children (#1) and getting married (#2-3) as most important to successful life, while progressive women rank marriage at #11 and low in their top priorities, suggesting fundamentally different life orientations between political groups.

“they asked young people uh if you want to have a successful life, what are the most important pieces of that for you? And for Trump voting young men, the number one answer was having children. And uh the number three answer was was getting married... And it was 11 for progressive women. And so the... it was didn't even make the top... It was second and third from the bottom.”

Brooks considers himself a person of faith, but until his 50s had no faith; he was influenced by biblical values that the strong should serve the weak and rich should serve poor

“you know, I I'm I think I'm pretty consistent. I'm now I'm a person of faith, but until my 50s, I had no faith. But I did read the Bible. And the idea that the the strong should serve the weak and the rich should serve the poor was pretty squarely in the center of the both Old and New Testament. And so that seemed like a good value to embrace.”

Dostoevsky's 'Notes from Underground' describes a nihilistic young man feeling invisible to society who concludes that if society hates him, he will hate it back; this archetype appears again as terrorist/mass murderer, suggesting the problem is centuries old.

“Dustki wrote a book notes from the underground about a nihilistic young man who feels invisible to society and draws the right conclusion that if society hates me, I'm going to hate right back.”

Love is not the same as desire or wanting to possess; when you want someone romantically you want to devour them, but when you love them you want to serve them, and real love eliminates the distinction between giving and receiving because giving to someone you love feels as good as receiving.

“love is you know when you want someone you want to devour them but when you love someone you want to serve them and it's that and one of the things people say love is love eliminates the distinction between giving and receiving because to give to someone you love feels like as good as it as receiving.”

The goal of the American System tradition is creating a world in which poor boys and girls can rise and succeed; if you lose social mobility and divide into a class structure, 'that's curtains.'

“as Hamilton or Lincoln would have said it's about creating a world in which poor boys and girls can rise and succeed. If we don't have social mobility, if we divide into a class structure, then that's curtains.”

Trust is a moral faith that anticipates the future and relies on shared moral sense and shared norms about how to treat each other; if people have repeatedly betrayed you, distrust is usually well-founded and trust deficit is a moral barometer of society.

“trust is faith that you will do what you ought to do. And so it's a faith. It's a form of faith because it's I'm anticipating the future and I have faith in you. uh and it and it faith it's a moral kind of faith that you will do what you ought to do”

The Weig tradition (from Alexander Hamilton through Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and John McCain's 2000 campaign) believes in limited but energetic government to enhance social mobility, helping poor boys and girls rise and succeed.

“there are three traditions in American life even though we only have two parties... a progressive tradition... a more libertarian tradition... a third tradition which starts with Alexander Hamilton. It goes up through Henry Clay and Daniel Webster and the Wig Party uh with the American system. And then it goes up through Abraham Lincoln... and then it goes up to the Roosevelt and then it goes up and probably dies with John McCain... that tradition believes in limited but energetic government to enhance social mobility.”

A commitment is 'falling in love with something and then building a structure of behavior around it for when love falters'—commitment requires practices and structures (e.g., Jewish kosher practice as behavioral structure for faith, legal/religious marriage bonds as structure for love) because feelings alone are not reliable.

“A commitment is falling in love with something and then building a structure of behavior around it for when love falters. So Jews love their God, but they keep kosher just in case. Keep them on the straight and narrow. I love my wife, but we have a a legal and religious marital bond between us. So that's that's a structure of behavior for for those moments when love falters.”

The 'Whig tradition' in American politics (Hamilton, Clay, Lincoln, FDR, McCain 2000, Giuliani 2000) represents a third tradition distinct from progressivism and libertarianism, believing in 'limited but energetic government to enhance social mobility' by creating conditions for poor boys and girls to rise through policies like education, job training, EITC, baby bonds—not redistribution but human capital investment.

“Historically we've had a third tradition which starts with Alexander Hamilton... that tradition believes in limited but energetic government to enhance social mobility... the way you do that is you use government in limited but energetic ways to help people become good capitalists... good education policies, that's job training, that's earned income tax credit, that's baby bonds, whatever to help people rise and succeed.”

Breakup experience, though painful, teaches resilience—Brooks bought French cigarettes to suffer 'like Albert Camus' and found pride in his suffering, eventually recovering and learning he could endure setback

“when I got broken up with, I I went up to Water Tower Place in Chicago and bought some French cigarettes. If I was going to suffer, I wanted to suffer like Albert Kamu. Like I was I was weirdly proud of my suffering because I'd never experienced suffering like that. And I was like, 'Wow, I'm a deep guy. I'm so proud.' But it and but I got over it. It took years, frankly. Uh, but I got over it.”

The concept of 'weavers'—trusted community figures who build social connection and coordinate community action—is central to restoring trust: these are people who organize events, run nonprofits, help neighbors, and function as community hubs, creating spaces where trust can be rebuilt through direct relationship.

“We call them weavers cuz they're weaving communities together. They are the people who build trust and trust travels at the at the speed of relationship... the people in the neighborhood who spontaneously organize things... I practice aggressive friendship... she's the lady on the black who has the July 4th parties.”

The price of opposing authoritarianism is a key metric for measuring whether authoritarian conditions exist; if institutions and voters are willing to push back against Trump, this reflects lower costs of opposition and may indicate the beginning of his coalition fracturing.

“You said you could measure authoritarianism by how high the price is to oppose it. Uh does the fact that institutions and voters are it seem reticent or actually less reticent? It seems like they're more willing to push back.”

Among liberal women who are married, 96% report being happy; among unmarried women, 66% report being happy; while this doesn't mean unmarried life is unhappy, the statistical odds of happiness are better with a life partner.

“I saw a study I think the in in the institute for family studies um that among liberal liberal women who get married 96% say they're happy and among unmarried 66%. So it doesn't mean you're going to be unhappy if you're unmarried.”

Forms of love in American society are all declining: dating relationships are way down, church attendance is way down, patriotic expression is way down (especially among younger generations), and civic participation is less rich, meaning people have fewer places to invest their capacity to love.

“The number of people in dating relationships is way down. Way down. The number of people who go to church is way down. The number of people who express patriotism, especially among the younger generations, is way down. Civic life is less rich.”

A young person who was a mass shooter was basically committing suicide and taking others with them, representing one segment of lonely men; another segment reacts with desire for family and marriage as their priority

“Some I would say some of the lonely young men do the they basically want to commit suicide and take others with them when they go. That's basically what a mass killing is. Uh and so there there's that segment, but there's another segment that's reacting.”

Work ethic is necessary alongside resources for poor families to improve long-term outcomes; families with strong work ethic do okay even with limited resources, and this factor cannot be ignored without seeming to blame victims.

“if you come from a poor family and have parents with an extremely strong work ethic, you're probably going to do okay. Uh and it's that work ethic that is necessary along with some resources.”

Falling in love at 18 and experiencing both the joy of reciprocated love and the pain of rejection is an irreplaceable educational experience; this romantic education teaches you to put your heart at the center of life rather than your head and is more valuable than formal college education.

“one of the most educational experiences I had in my life was falling in love with a woman when I was 18... that all that experience of falling in love and feeling your heart expand in a way you never imagined it could and then going through the rigors of a relationship and then going through the pain you experience when somebody dumps you. Uh that is an education. And I loved my college. I had a great experience to change my life. But I would trade my college education for that romantic education.”

Consumer sentiment is worse now than at the lowest point of the Biden administration, indicating economic anxiety is high despite some positive economic data.

“consumer sentiment is worse now than its lowest uh point in the Biden administration. Uh how do you view economic anxiety as as part of this political crisis?”

Estimates suggest 15-25% of Trump voters have changed their minds about him, indicating potential softening of his support base, though Brooks notes Trump still holds around 40-42% approval, his historic norm.

“My colleague at the New York Times, EJ Dion, had a piece where he estimated that somewhere between 15 and 25% of Trump voters have changed their mind about him... I think he's holding around 40% approval, 42, which is his is his historic norm.”

School spending has increased dramatically but test scores are dropping rapidly, and poor families receiving basic income do not show improved long-term outcomes (higher graduation rates, higher future incomes), suggesting money alone cannot solve problems without cultural/moral factors.

“We've thrown a lot increasingly more money at schools and scores are dropping rapidly. Uh and it's especially in efforts to create social mobility. If you give a for poor family money, they're better off... But what you were hoping when you gave a poor family basic income or whatever was that their long-term uh outcomes would be different, that they'd have higher high school graduation rates, they had higher incomes later on. Uh and that's not true.”

One student at Yale had every advantage (Bloomberg terminal at 18, stellar grades, lucrative internship) but was miserable when fired because he had never discovered his own purpose—he was just following what the system told him to want; Nietzsche's insight 'he who has a why to live can endure anyhow' applies: without purpose, setbacks are devastating.

“I had a student who was a great student. I gave him his only A minus at Yale. Uh, and he was such a good investor that while he was in college, he had a Bloomberg terminal on his dorm room desk... And he got out and he got and he was an arrogant bro kind of guy and wonderful guy. I really liked him. And he got out and he got fired and he called me and his voice was utterly different uh because he had done what he thought. And when he was fired from that job, he didn't really know what his tilos was. And I think he never knew... the niche has a saying, he who has a why to live or can endure anyhow.”

Many young people are 'insecure overachievers' with no foundation—they've built impressive towers of accomplishment on rotten foundations of unexamined purpose, so their towers eventually crumble.

“I found that many young people are what they call insecure overachievers. they uh have no foundation. They haven't discovered their sense of purpose. So, they build very impressive towers up on top, but their foundation is rotten and eventually the towers are going to crumble.”

A woman in Florida was helping children cross the street after school every day but said she had 'no time to volunteer' and didn't see it as volunteering—she saw it as 'what neighbors do'; if norms shifted so people redefined this kind of care as normal neighborly behavior, trust would increase.

“We ran into a lady in Florida and she was helping kids across the street after elementary school one in the afternoon and we asked her, 'Do you have time to volunteer in your neighborhood?' And she said, 'Nope, I have no time.' And she said, we said, 'Well, are you getting paid to do this?' And she said, 'No, but I help the kids cross the street after school cuz it'll be safer for them.' Uh, and then we said, 'What do you do the rest of the day?' And she said, 'Well, on Thursdays I take food to the hospital so the patients love some nicer food to eat.' And we said, 'Do you have time to volunteer in your neighborhood?' and she said, 'No, I have no time.' And she didn't see this as volunteering. She just saw it as what neighbors do.”

The problem is that we have taken money that should be going to young people on the way up and given it to people who are dying or old on the way out, which is 'just a stupid way to run the country.'

“Well, I've been arguing against old people who are my base. That's my base. Old people are my base. PBS News Center, New York Times column. Uh but but we have basically taken money that should be going to young people on the way up and we've given it to people who are dying or old on the way out. Uh and that's just a stupid way to run the country.”

The interviewer's primary lens for understanding societal problems is economic incentives due to his background (business school teaching, entrepreneurship, capital raising, corporate boards); this creates what he calls 'proximity bias' toward economic explanations.

“I one of my real weak points is I tend to think of things through an economic lens. And also I and by the way I think the idolatry of the dollar in America I think America is basically becoming a trading platform. It's it's like losing almost any sense of self around what it means to be a society... And so the incentives among young young people is just disproportionately towards doing whatever is required uh to find money... And that is whenever I look at a situation where the behavior just I can't figure it out I go right to the economic incentives but part of that again is proximity bias. Those are the people I teach at a business school. I don't teach at the sociology department.”

Contemporary culture is self-oriented, defining love as 'what makes me feel good' rather than as sacrifice and service; people ask 'when am I in love?' rather than understanding love as choosing to serve another's desires above one's own.

“Part of the problem is the self. Uh I I recently came across a study where they asked a lot of people, 'How do you know when you're in love?' And they said, 'I know I'm in love when I don't have to try hard socially... the theme through all the comments was I know I'm in love when I get to feel a certain way. It's not when I get to sacrifice and put their desires above myself.'”

America is becoming a trading platform focused on getting rich, losing any sense of collective identity or self; character seems to take a distant second to money, with character and grit conflated with bank account size.

“I think America is basically becoming a trading platform. It's like losing almost any sense of self around what it means to be a society. We're just a trading platform to try and get rich is and it you know character seems to take in a distant second and character and grit are conflated with the size of your bank account. Full stop is how I see it.”

Brooks launched the Weave social fabric project in 2017, based on the theory that social distrust is underlying many problems; the project identifies 'weavers'—trusted community leaders who spontaneously organize and build trust.

“in 2017, I la I launched a nonprofit exactly on this subject on the idea that social distrust was underlying a lot of the problems in our society. And so the project the project is called Weave, the social fabric project.”

Touch is a foundational mammalian need with powerful calming effects: primates are constantly touching each other, and humans require affectionate physical contact for psychological well-being—this is not trivial but central to human flourishing.

“Our nearest animal ancestors, apes and such, they're constantly touching each other. It just has a tremendous calming effect.”

The host tends to think through an economic lens due to upbringing lacking money, business school teaching, entrepreneurship, and board roles, but acknowledges this is a weakness as it leads to idolatry of dollars and treating America as a trading platform

“I just grew up in an environment where I you know not having money then being very focused on econ economic security teaching at a business school being an entrepreneur raising capital being on boards. I one of my real weak points is I tend to think of things through an economic lens. And also I and by the way I think the idolatry of the dollar in America I think America is basically becoming a trading platform. It's it's like losing almost any sense of self around what it means to be a society. We're just a trading platform to try and get rich is and it you know character seems to take in a distant second and character and grit are conflated with the size of your bank account. Full stop is how I see it.”

Political homelessness is becoming a common condition as both major parties fail to represent large constituencies, with David Brooks himself as an example of someone with no partisan home

“The term I keep hearing and it's become almost a badge of honor. People are consistently saying consistently saying I'm politically homeless. And there's different levels of homelessness, right? There's people who don't have a static address. They're qualified as homeless. There's people live in their car and there's people, you know, living under a bridge. I think of David Brooks as a guy living under a bridge. Like, I can't imagine a more politically homeless person right now.”

What changed in the job market is not the number of good jobs available, but the structure of pathways: there used to be clear, linear career pathways (e.g., small magazine associate editor → gradually worked up to major publication), but now pathways are either gone or drastically fewer, collapsed toward a single 'mountaintop' of elite institutions (selective colleges, Goldman Sachs, BCG), creating chaos as millions compete for that single route.

“When I was getting out of college, it felt like there were like nine jobs there... there were pathways to uh the right jobs. And it was there was a clear steps you took... And now I feel those pathways are gone or worse there are fewer pathways. So in a just society the there are many mountain tops and different people got to climb different mountain tops depending on their abilities or tastes. But now we've rendered into one mountaintop. You have to get into a selective college. you have to get a job at a very small number of firms like Goldman Sachs or or whatever Bane and that's the one route and so you have millions of people trying to get into that route”

Young people lack skill-building in basic social competencies—how to ask for forgiveness, listen well, have great conversations, conduct breakups with decency—and these relational skills are neglected in contemporary upbringing, resulting in adults who cannot navigate relationships with care.

“These are basic social skills that we have not passed on. And they're skills like how to ask for an offer for forgiveness. uh how to listen really well to somebody, how to be a great conversationalist. Uh and somehow social skills are are um neglected.”

Falling in love and being in a romantic relationship in young adulthood is a profound educational experience teaching resilience and heart-centeredness, more valuable than formal college education—the experience of having your heart expand, navigating relationship challenges, and surviving heartbreak teaches essential life lessons about vulnerability and growth.

“One of the most educational experiences I had in my life was falling in love with a woman when I was 18... that all that experience of falling in love and feeling your heart expand in a way you never imagined it could and then going through the rigors of a relationship and then going through the pain you experience when somebody dumps you. Uh that is an education. And I loved my college. I had a great experience to change my life. But I would trade my college education for that romantic education.”

Social trust began to decline about 30 years ago, while federal government trust began declining in the 1970s, indicating that social media (which emerged around 2013) cannot be the primary cause—the underlying causes are deeper and predate technology, primarily social disconnection, shrinking families, and shrinking friendship circles.

“The trust numbers really began to go south about 30 years ago. The the federal trust numbers began to go south in the 70s... I think that's a big part of it. Uh but I think it's mostly it's social disconnection. Uh it's shrinking family size. It's shrinking friendship circles.”

Liberalism developed philosophy from positions of power (New Deal), while conservatism developed philosophy from positions of marginalization, making conservatism historically more philosophical and less programmatic/economistic, and more focused on values than material solutions—this explains why liberals tend to believe money solves problems while conservatives focus on culture.

“Modern liberalism grew up in power... when there was levers of power that Democrats controlled... Conservatism more or less grew up out of power... so I found... conservatism was more philosophically oriented and progressivism was more programmatical and more reliant on planning and econom economics.”

Walt Disney's approach to animation—investing three years of preparation before drawing the first cell of Snow White, hiring artists and art historians to study masters, bringing in Frank Lloyd Wright to teach about lines, making decisions about character—made 'no economic sense' but was driven by commitment to excellence and passion for the work, and ultimately paid off economically because of the quality produced.

“When he was making Snow White the first fulllength feature animated movie he he hired artists and art historians... he worked on this movie three years before even drawing this first cell... It made no economic sense to do all this stuff, but he did it because he he just wanted to do the thing he wanted to do... But it was totally driven and frankly it economically eventually paid off.”

Precarity is fundamentally about uncertainty and lack of clarity rather than raw economic conditions: young people feel precarious not because of absolute poverty but because they lack clarity about pathways, roles, and expectations, even though objective economic metrics are improving.

“I think the procarity is often the uncertainty and the lack of clarity, the lack of order, uh, as much even though the the raw economic data show millennial and Gen Z are doing pretty well.”

Love is fundamentally about sacrifice and service ('when you want someone you want to devour them, but when you love someone you want to serve them'), not about emotional gratification or how the other person makes you feel—contemporary culture has inverted this by treating love as a feeling to receive rather than a commitment to give.

“I recently came across a study where they asked a lot of people, 'How do you know when you're in love?' And they said, 'I know I'm in love when I don't have to try hard socially. I know I'm in love when somebody makes me feel uh warm and appreciated.'... the theme through all the comments was I know I'm in love when I get to feel a certain way. It's not when I get to sacrifice and put their desires above myself. And we have gone in such a self-oriented culture that love is about how do you make me feel... and that's really not what love is. Uh love is is you know when you when you want someone you want to devour them but when you love someone you want to serve them”

Brooks fell in love at age 18 on May 5th, 1979, when a woman slipped her hand into his at a campfire, and he chose to stay home working as a janitor to be near her despite no economic reward

“one of the most educational experiences I had in my life was falling in love with a woman when I was 18. Uh, and I remember it was May 5th, 1979. We were at a campfire with friends and she slipped her hand into mine and it was one of the happiest moments of my life.”

College students often believe that a single failure derails their entire life, and Brooks tries to assure them that this is not true.

“the college students I teach certainly often believe that if uh I have one failure then my life is derailed. So one false step and it's over. And I try to assure them that that's not true.”

Young people who are 'insecure overachievers' build impressive towers of achievement but have rotten foundations because they haven't discovered their sense of purpose or 'why'; without knowing why you're on earth, setbacks are devastating rather than survivable.

“many young people are what they call insecure overachievers. they uh have no foundation. They haven't discovered their sense of purpose. So, they build very impressive towers up on top, but their foundation is rotten and eventually the towers are going to crumble.”

University of Michigan consumer sentiment data shows sentiment is 'through the floor' currently, and 20% of Republicans think Donald Trump is responsible, suggesting some erosion of Trump support even among his base.

“University of Michigan consumer data in information consumer sentiment is through the floor. And what's interesting to me is that um 20% of Republicans think Donald Trump is responsible.”

Republican-led states (Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Florida, Georgia) are now the best-performing states on education metrics and are making gains, while California has only 28% of black children reading at grade level versus 58% in Mississippi.

“The best education states, as has been written about a lot, are Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, uh, Florida, Georgia, they're those are the states where the gains are being made... In California, 28% of black kids are reading at grade level. 28%. In Mississippi, a much poorer state, 58% of black kids are reading at grade level.”

Donald Trump telling people 'You can get by on two dollars' instead of the $179 they actually spend on groceries is flippant, unsympathetic, and makes people feel 'unseen,' which is fundamentally what Americans want from leaders—to be seen.

“One of the dumbest things Donald Trump is doing right now is, uh, going to people at rallies and saying, 'You don't need 32 dolls. You can get by with two dolls.' That just, um, makes people feel like he's flippant and he doesn't sympathize. And if there's one thing Americans want right now, it's to be seen by their leaders. And when they go to the supermarket and they buy like a medium amount and they walk out of there with $179 bill and he says buy two dolls there people are going to feel unseen.”

Brooks is politically homeless; while he's been critical of his older conservative base, he's also critical of progressivism; he now considers himself on the moderate side of the Democratic Party.

“I'm a person of faith, but until my 50s, I had no faith... And then I um uh then my one of my heroes is Edund Burke... I see bits of it on the the moderate side of the Democratic party, which is where I now consider myself.”

People are currently in a state of 'prepared for the worst,' quick to see threats, have 'high threat perception,' and quick to blame elites; Trump is increasingly being seen as one of the elites.

“We are in a moment where um people are prepared for the worst [snorts] uh quick to see the worst, I would say, high threat perception and then quick to blame the elites and Donald Trump is now being seen a little more as one of the elites.”

Conservatism was philosophically oriented and more concerned with principle than policy through the 1960s until Ronald Reagan; modern conservatives have changed significantly from that philosophical orientation.

“Conservatism more or less grew up out of power. And so when I was a young conservative uh we had neck ties and some conservatives wore Adam Smith neck ties, some were St. Augustine, some were Edund Burke, but the load stars of being conservative was philosophical and it was more it was out of power. It was a group in through the 60s until Ronald Reagan was in exile. And so I found it in those days, things have all changed now, of course, as a more conservatism was more philosophically oriented and progressivism was more programmatical and more reliant on planning and econom economics.”

The majority of aggressive comments found online are from bot accounts or accounts with minimal followers designed to create engagement and division, rather than from authentic individuals—platform algorithms amplify artificial conflict.

“I'll find that half of them, especially the really vile ones, are dogm 312 with three followers. It's a bot meant to create engagement or from someone who sees a vested intern or national interest in dividing America.”

Democrats used to care deeply about education reform (Clinton and Obama both wanted it), but Harris and contemporary Democrats have walked away from education as a platform issue, which is a major strategic failure given that Republicans now outperform Democrats on education metrics.

“The way Democrats have walked away from that issue is astounding to me. Democrats like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama wanted education reform. And now the Democrats Kla Harris basically do not have an education plank in her platform”

The best way to predict the future used to be thought to be 'make it' (ego-driven action orientation), but a better way to predict the future is to look at incentives; if you understand the incentives people face, you can predict their behavior.

“I used to think the best way to predict the future was to make it which is sort of this ego-driven actionorientation like Tarzan uh trope but I now think it's the best way to predict the future is to look at incentives”

Norms can shift relatively quickly and dramatically—shifts in littering norms (1970s), smoking norms (later), and #MeToo movement (sexual harassment norms)—demonstrating that large-scale cultural change is possible if conditions align, so trust norms could similarly be shifted.

“If you can shift norms, you can really produce big change all at once. So in the '7s we shifted norms around littering... Then we shifted norms about smoking. The me too movement shifted norms about sexual abuse and harassment and you can shift norms.”

Brooks personally leads with exaggerated trust, which sometimes burns him through betrayal, but on balance he believes most people will behave trustworthily if you lead with trust first, though this requires not being too damaged by life.

“I have found in my life I don't know you that I always lead with trust. I I exaggeratedly trust people. And often that burns me. Not often, but sometimes it burns me... But I think on balance, if you lead with trust, most of the time people will behave in trustworthy ways.”

Humans evolved to be surrounded by and seen by about 150 other people—'Dunbar's number'—when you're unseen and isolated beyond this natural group size, you become distrustful, and less likely to be trustworthy in return, setting up feedback loops where isolation breeds antisocial behavior.

“We evolved to be surrounded by 150 other people who saw us all the time. And when you get more distrustful you're less likely to trust others and less people will less likely to be trustworthy to you.”