Glen Jeffery explains: the Science behind Mitochondrial Infra-Red (MIR)
What this covers
Professor Glen Jeffrey discusses the role of infrared light in relation to mitochondria and its impact on human health. He explains how mitochondria are the cellular batteries that provide energy to the body and how sunlight plays a crucial role in their function. He highlights the importance of red and infrared light in improving mitochondrial performance and discusses the potential benefits of using red light therapy in treating age-related diseases. He also emphasizes the need for a balance between blue and red light in the built environment and the importance of full spectrum LEDs in promoting human health.
Takeaways
* Mitochondria are the cellular batteries that provide energy to the body. * Red and infrared light can improve mitochondrial performance and potentially extend lifespan. * The balance between blue and red light is crucial for human health. * The lighting industry plays a significant role in promoting public health by providing lighting solutions that support mitochondrial function.
Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Infrared and Mitochondria 02:41 The Role of Mitochondria in Energy Production 05:04 Mitochondrial Theory of Aging 06:33 The Relationship Between Mitochondria and Light 07:28 Different Wavelengths of Light and Their Penetration in the Body 08:55 The Effects of Infrared Light on Mitochondria 10:25 Experiments on Mice and Flies with Infrared Light 13:03 The Impact of Infrared Light on Bees 14:28 The Potential of Infrared Light in Human Health 19:15 The Importance of Red Light in the Built Environment 23:36 The Effects of Red Light on Vision 27:02 The Potential of Red Light in Managing Blood Sugar Levels 29:43 The Need for Broad Spectrum Infrared Lights 31:53 The Dangers of Blue Light 37:09 The Balance Between Blue and Red Light 38:24 The Importance of Sunlight and Full Spectrum LEDs 41:05 The Limitations of Monochromatic Infrared Light 44:38 The Challenge of Integrating Mitochondrial Light Research with Lighting Engineering 45:08 Conclusion and Importance of Lighting Industry in Public Health
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Infrared light, particularly wavelengths of 650-900 nanometers, is critical for mitochondrial function and human health, and the modern built environment's deficiency in red/infrared light while overloading blue light is creating a public health crisis of aging, metabolic dysfunction, and neurodegeneration.
- Mitochondria absorb long-wavelength infrared light to recharge ATP production, while blue light (420-450nm) discharges them, and modern LEDs lack infrared while emphasizing blue
- Red light exposure improves vision, memory, mobility, lifespan in animal models and increases metabolic demand for glucose and oxygen in humans, reducing blood sugar peaks
- Blue light exposure increases heart rate and blood pressure acutely, slows mitochondrial metabolism, and causes obesity in mice, indicating systemic damage
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The retina and brain are the two parts of the human body that consume the most ATP and energy, which is why they are most vulnerable to mitochondrial dysfunction: when ATP production drops, neural tissues fail first.
“what reg it's really important that we find out what runs batteries and who needs batteries well all of your tissues are not the same some parts of your body need more energy than others and surprisingly the part of your body that burns more energy than any other part is your retina your retina consumes vast amounts of energy in fact you produce your own body weight in ATP each day it's produced it's degraded it's reproduced the other part of your body that uses vast amounts of ATP is your brain your toes don't really need very much and because your brain needs vast amounts of energy when the energy runs down we end up in situations where we have Alzheimer's disease where we have Parkinson's disease in the retina we end up with macular degeneration”
Incandescent light bulbs (used until the mid-1990s) had a spectrum very similar to natural sunlight with large amounts of red and infrared, meaning that people living indoors with incandescent lighting up to the mid-1990s were receiving adequate red/infrared light exposure despite being inside.
“if we were to go back to 30 years we would have incandescent light bulbs filament bulbs those filament bulbs are very very similar to natural sunlight they've got a big chunk of red in them an infrared so up until the mid 1990s we were actually okay when we lived inside because as we lived inside we had Eco we had um incandescent light bulbs with a load of infrared in them we're now here that Red's gone”
Bright outdoor sunlight in June reflects infrared light when it touches skin (you don't feel heat because infrared is being reflected rather than absorbed), allowing people to receive significant infrared exposure by walking in parks or natural settings.
“when you're outside is sitting in very bright sunlight in June and you touch it it's not hot it's not hot because it won't absorb infrared light it reflects it so you can get a very significant exposure to infrared light by walking in the park”
The mitochondrial theory of aging originated in the late 1950s and is a solid, durable scientific theory—not a fad—that remains validated by evidence across decades of research.
“reducing mitochondrial performance and reducing ATP will drive aging mitochondrial Theory of Aging comes out of the late 1950s but it's solid every time you look at it you think well that fits that fits it's not a fad that is a really solid Theory”
Blue light in the 420-450 nanometer range discharges the mitochondrial battery by reducing ATP production and can increase the pace of aging and increase probability of death.
“the other wavelengths of light let's look at the other end of the Spectrum which we can see relatively clearly 420 to 450 nanometers which is in the blue deep blue working its way into the Violet that discharges the battery we know exact we've got a pretty good idea how those mechanisms work but it discharges the battery it reduces the ATP and it can increase the pace of aging and increase the probability of death”
ATP (adenosine triphosphate) is the form of liquid energy that the mitochondrial battery produces, and it is continuously produced, degraded, and regenerated in the body—humans produce roughly their own body weight in ATP each day.
“that battery power it produces something called adenosine triphosphate ATP ATP is the liquid energy that the battery is is producing”
Mitochondria are organelles present in hundreds per cell that serve as the cellular battery, providing energy for all cellular function, and their efficiency determines health span and lifespan according to the mitochondrial theory of aging.
“mitochondria are organelles there's hundreds of them in your cells in the body and they are your battery they provide the energy”
Different wavelengths of light penetrate the body to different depths: ultraviolet light does not penetrate deeply (which is why sunburn occurs on skin), while longer wavelengths from 800-900 nanometers penetrate deeply through the entire body and can be measured exiting the opposite side.
“your ultraviolet light doesn't go very far and that's why you get sunburn because the skin is blocking it and the energy is being released superficially in your skin but these super long wavelengths here penetrate very deeply through the body you can get 800 900 nanometers you can measure it coming out the other side of your body”
Primitive cells billions of years ago had low energy and limited capability, but when mitochondrial bacteria entered cells and began providing energy, this enabled the development of complex life with mobility and the transformation of Earth's biosphere.
“long long time ago billions of years ago in evolution cells um like this character here didn't have much energy and the consequence of that was they didn't do very much and they lived in a world that was very very simple and it was mainly formed of slime um wet slime and evolution progressed and as Evolution progressed these cells were approached by something called a mitochondria and the mitochondria said to the cell here's the deal you let me live inside you and I'll provide you with all the energy that you want and suddenly life was transformed on Earth”
John (the podcast host/interviewer) notes that the harsh blue peak in commercial LED production is not a design choice but is inherent to how LEDs work, establishing that this is a technical constraint rather than an intentional feature.
“the blue pump on the on the LED that that huge Peak that we've got generally speaking in in commercial LED production we don't have a choice on that that's that's what makes the LED work”
Everything observed in fruit fly experiments translates to mouse experiments, and everything observed in mice translates to humans, suggesting a conserved biological mechanism across model organisms.
“and one point I really want to make here that's important is everything we find in a fly we find in a mouse everything we found in a mouse we find in us”
In natural sunlight, there is a rough balance between blue and red wavelengths, and disruption of this balance—such as overexposure to blue light without corresponding red light—has consequences for human health.
“remember in ordinary sunlight which we've evolved under for millions of years there's a rough balance between the blue and the red so one of the questions we've got to bear in mind is what happens if we kick that balance what happens if that balance changes what does that mean for us”
Neonicotinoid insecticides (particularly imidacloprid) poison bee and fly mitochondria by discharging them and reducing ATP, causing immobility and death, and red light exposure can partially reverse this poisoning by improving mitochondrial function.
“the inor signes we use to kill well to kill insects that we're spraying um the neonicotinoids which are partially Bann in the UK um have a disastrous effect on insects including bees and they develop what is like a Parkinson State they discharge the battery there's no ATP the animal can't move the animal doesn't feed the animal dies”
A University of Surrey study showed that exposure to blue light on mice slows their mitochondrial metabolism, reduces glucose uptake from the bloodstream, causes elevated blood sugar to be stored as fat, resulting in mice becoming three times heavier than controls despite being on the same diet.
“she took a whole group of mice and she exposed them every day to Blue Light now blue light slows down your mitochondria influences your metabolism 450 loads of 450 in our environment these are the control mice and these are their weights the controls stay relatively stable these are the mice that are exposed to Blue Light we've slowed down their metabolism we've slowed down their mitochondria and because we've slowed down their mitochondria the mitochondria are not drawing sugars out of our blood so the sugars are running around and in the end body's saying let's take them into storage let's save this for a rainy day consequences you put on a very large large amount of weight these are weaks these animals are three times heavier at this stage than the controls”
Aged fruit flies with impaired navigation and cognitive ability ('lost') show improved exploration strategy and reduced errors after red light exposure, indicating that red light improves cognition and spatial memory, not just motor function.
“oh flies less ATP mitochondria run down um they get lost they simply get lost they don't have a strategy for getting out if you give these mice a burst of red light you don't take them back to where they were but you improve their strategies for exploring their environment”
When humans are given a baseline measurement of color detection threshold and then exposed to a burst of red light (670 nanometers), their ability to see colored letters against background noise improves within 3 hours, with blue target detection improving by 17% and red target detection improving by 12%.
“we do a baseline measurement on all these people which is the black dots we give them a burst of red light and we retest them three hours later and for each pair the red light red square underneath is the threshold for that individual and you can see that in each case the red square is lower than the black dot that means thresholds have gone down that means Vision has improved”
Mice exposed to 670 nanometer red light show almost double the ATP levels in their cerebral cortex and significantly increased ATP in the thalamus (deep brain region) compared to control animals, demonstrating that infrared light can increase energy production in the brain.
“this animal has had a burst of 670 nanometer light it's got more ATP let's move over to the top of the brain the cerebral cortex the animal that's had nothing done to it how much ATP it's got and this one here has had 670 and it's almost got twice as much ATP in it”
Bee hives transported in trucks for almond pollination in California suffer a 4% loss of hives due to stress, but installation of red lights in these trucks has reduced hive loss by approximately 70%, providing practical evidence of red light's protective effect in a real-world agricultural application.
“there's a 4 % loss of hives in these lores in these trucks so we've now got uh red lights in these hives in these trucks and a loss of Hive is down by about 70%”
When humans are exposed to 450 nanometer blue light, their heart rate shoots up and blood pressure drops significantly, representing major acute cardiovascular changes that have never been studied for long-term consequences.
“what we do is we then give them we didn't I certainly did not do this we then give them a burst of uh 450 nanometer light to their body so and we measure a number of metrics heart rate heart rate shoots up when you're exposed to Blue Light blood pressure nose Dives when you're exposed to Blue Light”
When red light is shone on one part of the body (such as the retina or back), mitochondria in other parts of the body receive the signal and respond accordingly, indicating that mitochondria communicate across the body through cytokines and systemic signals.
“when we shine red light onto an organism there has to be be a unitary a unitary response to that light and what we've looked at is we looked at the cyto kindes that are running around in your blood they're inflammatory markers they're Messengers that tell different tissues in your body what's going on just if you look at the patterns here the black lines are the cyto kindes in control mice nothing's been done to them the red histograms are cyto kindes in the Bloods of my that been exposed to Red Light there's only one point that you need to take from this and that is if you shine red light on one part of your body other parts of your body get to hear about it very soon”
Red light exposure could theoretically be delivered to the hand during ATM use (banking) as a practical, low-friction way to supplement infrared exposure throughout the day, though Glenn previously thought this was unrealistic before confirming systemic mitochondrial coordination.
“I used to have the fantasy that we could give people red light by putting their hand into uh when when they go to get a go to the cash machine while they're at the cash machine plugging in their numbers they put their other hand down and it gets exposed red light and I said to everybody in the lab this is a fantasy but we're going to drive towards that fantasy that's not a fantasy anymore”
The primary recommendation for public health is to reduce blue light and increase red light in environments, rather than optimize across all wavelengths; Glenn states he would 'die happily' if able to remove blue and restore red, even without comprehensive full-spectrum replication.
“so again I'm going to go back to the public health issue I'm going to say if I can get rid of the blue light and give you a bit of red I'll die happily okay”
A critical barrier exists between mitochondrial light researchers and lighting engineers: mitochondrial researchers request invisible infrared light (beyond 700nm) that provides no illumination benefit, requiring lighting engineers to invest in costly technology for effects they cannot see, creating economic disincentive for adoption.
“when it comes to lighting industry they're saying well why am I doing this because you can't see it so there there has to be there has to be this point where the mitochondrial light People Meet the lighting engineers and it's quite difficult because the languages are quite different um and some of the concepts are quite challenging um for both of us um and we're asking you to generate light that we don't see that's costing money um you know I get it I get it there's an issue there”
Glenn frames the issue as fundamentally one of public health and human biology rather than illumination engineering, asserting that lighting professionals are critically important to solving a major public health crisis caused by modern lighting deficiency.
“you guys in the lighting industry are super important really super important for public health so thank you for giving me a chance to stand on my Orange Box”
Sunlight is the cure for infrared-deficiency diseases; 850-nanometer monochromatic red light should be viewed as a temporary patch rather than a solution, as it provides a single spike rather than the broad-spectrum infrared distribution of natural sunlight.
“I regard sunlight as the Cure of the disease I res regard 850 nanometers as being a very good sticking plaster over the problem um so sunlight is the answer if we can't get it then we should be thinking about broad spectrum infrared lights now when you look at it in in sunlight and you think well you go out to 800 900 nanometers at any one point there isn't a lot of it there however the key issue is those wavelengths penetrate deep in the body the longer the wavelength the greater the penetration into the body”
Host John notes that infrared light and its effects represent a missing piece in the health puzzle that was being overlooked; the conversation represents an important 'toolbox' or set of practical 'spanners and screwdrivers' for understanding and solving health problems.
“because clearly this is a health issue this is not an illumination issue there's a there are people out there and I've been one of them said why are we talking about this but I think we have to talk about this because this the this is our toolbox these are our spanners and screwdrivers that will get out get us into or out of this”
Full-spectrum LEDs from Asia that market themselves as 'sunlight' do not have the harsh blue peak of standard LEDs, but they have not yet developed technology to extend their infrared emission all the way to 900 nanometers like natural sunlight.
“I've seen a number of products that have come out from the Far East which call themselves sunlight um they don't have that harsh Peak yeah and I should point out that harsh Peak hardly changes between warm and cold LEDs but what they have not got is they have not developed the technology to extend the emittance all the way out to places like 900 nanometers that is what we need to do”
The red light effects in laboratory experiments are subject to 'enormous slop in the system'—meaning there is wide tolerance for variation in dosage: 3 minutes of red light works as well as 20 minutes, and effects are all-or-nothing switchlike rather than dose-dependent, unlike pharmaceutical dosing.
“there's enormous amount of slop in the system okay so you can have as long as you are very rough ly imbalan between the blue and the red it's fine now we do things that are pretty kind of horrendous in the lab when you think about it in terms of metabolism we give a a hefty chunk of say 850 nanometers for three minutes but in actual fact we can do that for 20 minutes it makes no difference right”
The host and Glenn have agreed to use the phrase 'mitochondrial infrared' to describe the topic, signifying that the infrared light being discussed is specifically the wavelengths that mitochondria respond to and use for energy production.
“the topic is going to be infrared which seems to be coming a thing and what we're going to be talking about I think Glenn if you're happy with the phrase that that we've been using the last couple of weeks of mitochondrial infrared because that seems to be what the infrared is doing that we are talking about am I right absolutely well excellent”
BMW laser headlights have a very narrow, intense blue peak that, if someone is caught in the beam, causes noticeable physical effects within 3 minutes, indicating the potential harm of intense blue light exposure.
“some of the new BMW laser lights apparently they're absolutely stunning You Can See For Miles in the darkness with them but the um I think it was the Sunday Telegraph or the Daily Telegraph motoring correspondent said if you get caught in the beam of one of these things it's it's not about your okay three minutes later um there is something going on”
Glenn acknowledges he does not understand why red light effects show this switchlike, all-or-nothing pattern with broad tolerance, despite finding this puzzling for a long time, but feels compelled to move forward with public health applications rather than continue mechanistic investigation.
“now I don't understand that it really really bugged me for a long time but there comes a point where you got to say well look you know I I don't have the mechanism at the moment really to understand that let's push on a little bit by making this something that's addressable in terms of Public Health”
Determining the optimal wavelength combination for human health would require 53 PhD students working for 20 years, testing each wavelength individually for penetration depth and tissue energy deposition, due to the complexity of optical properties varying by tissue type.
“you could have 53 PhD students working on this one for 20 years um and that will be the the the measure of the problem because you'd have to go from wavelength to wavelength to wavelength and say how far is it going what energy is it dropping in what tissues because different tissues have got different Optical penetrants”