Grant Williams: Gold’s Real Role & Why the Dollar’s Future Is at Risk
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Grant Williams joins Wealthion’s Trey Reik to explain why the global debt crisis and the dollar’s fragility are reshaping the financial system. Grant reveals why the freezing of Russia’s reserves marked a turning point, how BRICS nations are exploring alternatives, and why central banks are buying record amounts of gold. For Williams, gold isn’t a trade; it’s wealth preservation, a way to protect purchasing power and prepare for a world of headwinds rather than tailwinds that’s coming.
This conversation is part of Wealthion’s Gold Interview Series, a special lineup this month featuring some of the most important voices in precious metals. If you want to understand the future of money, the role of gold, and how to think like an investor in uncertain times, this interview is essential viewing. 💡Protect your wealth in a world of debt and uncertainty. Get a free portfolio review with Wealthion’s endorsed financial advisors at https://bit.ly/3IDNGEW
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Chapters: 0:38 - Intro: Why This Conversation Matters Today 2:10 - First Time at Rick Rule’s Conference? 4:13 - Debt Limits: Are We Finally at the End of the Line? 5:31 - De-Dollarization: Has the Shift Already Begun? 7:54 - BRICS: Real Dollar Rival or Just Talk? 10:19 - China’s Cross-Border System & Gold’s Role 12:26 - When Would Gold Stop Being a “Must-Own”? 14:02 - 1980 Playbook: Are There Times Not to Own Gold? 16:24 - Will the Fed Monetize America’s Debt? 18:22 - Grant’s Take on Gold Stocks 18:41 - Portfolio Mix: How Much Gold Is “Right”? 19:50 - Beyond Gold: What Should Investors Focus On Now?
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#Wealthion #Wealth #Finance #Investing #Gold #Silver #PreciousMetals #DollarCrisis #DebtCrisis #CentralBanks #BRICS #DeDollarization #WealthPreservation #Markets ________________________________________________________________________ IMPORTANT NOTE: The information, opinions, and insights expressed by our guests and our hosts do not necessarily reflect the views of Wealthion or the views of their respective employers. They are intended to provide a diverse perspective on the economy, investing, and other relevant topics to enrich your understanding of these complex fields. While we value and appreciate the insights shared by our esteemed guests and hosts, they are to be viewed as personal opinions and not as investment advice or recommendations from Wealthion or their respective employers. These opinions should not replace your own due diligence or the advice of a professional financial advisor. We strongly encourage all of our audience members to seek out the guidance of a financial advisor who can provide advice based on your individual circumstances and financial goals. Wealthion has a distinguished network of advisors who are available to guide you on your financial journey. However, should you choose to seek guidance elsewhere, we respect and support your decision to do so. The world of finance and investment is intricate and diverse. It's our mission at Wealthion to provide you with a variety of insights and perspectives to help you navigate it more effectively. We thank you for your understanding and your trust.
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Grant Williams argues that gold's value lies in preserving purchasing power through long-term ownership rather than price speculation, and that the global financial system is undergoing a fundamental shift away from dollar dominance driven by geopolitical incentives and central bank behavior.
- Gold should be evaluated on what it can be exchanged for, not its nominal price
- The 2022 freezing of Russian central bank assets created a permanent shift in incentives for countries to reduce dollar dependence
- The next 40 years will feature headwinds rather than the tailwinds that made investing easy over the past 40 years
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Rather than providing specific stock recommendations, the more valuable service is helping people think differently about their investing approach, because market timing and stock picking are inherently uncertain while thinking frameworks are universally applicable.
“there are hundred people here who who will give you stock tips... But if I can talk to you about about how you think about investing... I don't see the point of me adding to that noise... I'd rather spend my time talking about things I know and sharing things with people that I know are going to have some use to them than some stock tip that I may or may not get right”
People will not exit risky dollar assets until they feel flames licking at their ankles—i.e., only when crisis is imminent—though prudent investors should recognize the trajectory and exit before the crisis, not during it.
“you keep dancing until the flames are licking at your ankles and then you leave... I would suggest that it maybe makes sense to get out before the flames are licking at your ankles”
Investors should distinguish between being a speculator and being an investor, and should ensure their behavior aligns with their identity, because operating as a closet speculator while thinking of yourself as an investor is a recipe for losses.
“do you know what you are? Are you an investor or are you a speculator and if you are a speculator do you conduct your trading the right way or do you think of yourself as an investor? Because if you think you're an investor but you're really a speculator you're in trouble and vice versa.”
Investors should recognize when the world has fundamentally changed and deliberately ask themselves what that change means for their portfolio structure and investment philosophy, rather than waiting to be 'smacked over the head by a 4x2' (crisis forcing change).
“you sit there and you go, 'Actually, the world has changed. I've had a great run. What's changed? What does that mean for my portfolio? What does that mean for the way I think about investing my capital? And do I need to change?'”
The Treasury's 2022 freezing of Russian central bank assets was a watershed moment that signaled to all dollar reserve holders globally that their reserves are no longer sacred and can be seized, fundamentally changing incentives toward de-dollarization.
“I think what happened in 2022 when the Treasury froze those Russian central bank assets, that was a really key moment that that kind of bypassed a lot of people. They just thought it was another sanction and it didn't really register a lot of people. But that was a game changer for me.”
A simple four-decision strategy over 40 years—buying gold in 1970, switching to Japanese equities in 1980, moving to tech stocks in 1990, and returning to gold in 2000—with no other activity generated approximately 200x returns by holding each asset class for a full decade.
“you bought gold in 1970. Cuz you're worried about inflation. You held it to 1980 when interest rates got high. Then you sold it. Bought a bond. No, you bought Japanese equities cuz that was the next big thing...You bought Japanese equities in 1980 cuz they were the next big thing. You held them. Gets to 1990...you get rid of them. You buy tech stocks...And you get to 2000, you flip it back into gold again...I think I forget the exact numbers...making four decisions in 40 years, one decision a decade, and you were up 200x.”
Asian nations have clear incentives now to reduce reliance upon the dollar and reduce their ability to be influenced by Federal Reserve and Treasury policies.
“There are clear incentives now to try and at least reduce reliance upon the dollar and and to also reduce your um your ability to be influenced by the policies of the Fed and particularly the Treasury.”
There are identifiable periods when owning gold makes sense and others when it doesn't, depending on the macro environment; for instance, in 1980 when interest rates and inflation were high and falling while GDP and savings were strong, there was no compelling reason to own gold.
“there are decades I maintain where it makes sense to own gold and there are decades when it doesn't. So in 1980, interest rates were high and falling. Inflation was high and falling. GDP was strong, savings were high. productivity was strong. Why would you own gold?”
An investor should not have to wake up in the middle of the night and stay up all night trying to exit positions; a well-constructed portfolio should provide enough peace of mind to avoid this stress even during market disruptions.
“I've not had to worry about those. I'm interested and I pay attention, but I haven't woken up in the middle of the night to stay up all night trying to get out of positions, which I'm so grateful to not have to do.”
The direction of travel toward de-dollarization and alternative currency arrangements (like BRICS) is already set and irreversible, despite no formal new system being functional yet, because each new unilateral US financial action gives countries additional reasons to accelerate cooperation.
“what people have to understand is the direction of travel is set, right? They're on that path... but the talks are happening. they're they're continuing down that road and they will continue down that road cuz it's in their best interest.”
The last 40 years have been a near-unprecedented period of tailwinds (falling interest rates, falling inflation, falling commodity prices, rising debt capacity, strong GDP, strong productivity, rising savings), making money-making the 'default position' rather than an accomplishment, yet the next 40 years will not feature these same tailwinds.
“In 1980, interest rates were high and falling. Inflation was high and falling. GDP was strong, savings were high. productivity was strong... Making money was the default position if you just were involved and didn't get too cute... the next 40 years are probably not going to be that way. It's not going to be tailwind all the way. It's probably going to be a few headwinds.”
BRICS countries are on a committed, irreversible path toward creating an alternative to dollar-based trade, not through a single unified currency (which has repeatedly failed) but through multilateral clearing arrangements, and this direction will continue because the incentives are aligned regardless of whether individual summits produce formal announcements.
“I don't think we're there yet. But these things take time...what people have to understand is the direction of travel is set, right? They're on that path.”
The last 40 years of financial market history (1980-2020) were extraordinarily favorable to investors due to converging tailwinds across all asset classes—falling interest rates, falling inflation, strong GDP growth, and high savings rates—making it easy to make money by simply staying invested; the next 40 years are unlikely to have these same tailwinds and will likely feature headwinds instead.
“this period we've just been through these last 40 years you had every tailwind and I went through the markets bond markets equity markets housing everything”
Bond markets are already showing abnormal behavior ('acting weirdly and not the way it should act'), the dollar has had a rough year, and various market signals suggest we are approaching a critical point where debt sustainability begins to matter to markets, though the exact timing is unknowable.
“You're starting to see the bond market act weirdly and not the way it should act and not the way it has acted... the reaction in the dollar this year obviously it's had a really rough year so far. Um so there are all these kind of things happening that suggest that maybe we're reaching a point where it's going to matter.”
The US has been on an unsustainable debt path for years that 'can't go on any longer,' but it has persisted longer than expected; however, recent signs including unusual bond market behavior, dollar weakness this year, and early recognition in mainstream publications suggest we may finally be reaching a critical threshold where the debt issue will matter significantly.
“we've been talking about it for so long now, you know, and we and people have been saying for years now, it can't go on any longer. And it has. It's sustained and endured for longer than anybody thought I think possible.”
Federal Reserve monetization of US debt is the inevitable trajectory, regardless of whether intervening events delay that outcome, because there is no realistic alternative to debt reduction and private markets will not absorb perpetually rising Treasury issuance.
“I do I think they're going to monetize the debt. I don't know what's going to happen, but I know we're heading that way. That's the track we're on. And whether something happens before they get to the the the point of maximum pain, I don't know. It's possible. Um, you know, you can't ascribe a 0% chance of that happening. Mh. But right now, that's the path we're on.”
The freezing of Russian central bank assets by the US Treasury in 2022 was a transformative geopolitical moment that signaled to all dollar-holding countries that their reserves are no longer secure, creating permanent incentives for central banks and governments to reduce dollar dependence and increase gold holdings regardless of subsequent policy changes.
“when the Treasury froze those Russian central bank assets, that was a really key moment...from that moment, Chinese treasury holdings accelerated down...central bank gold mine doubled.”
Gold should be understood as a long-term store of value to 'keep money' rather than as a trading vehicle, making the absolute price irrelevant and the exchange ratio (what you can buy with it) the only meaningful metric.
“I've never bought gold to make money. I bought gold to keep money... And so, the price is irrelevant. It's really what I can exchange it for.”
Evaluating gold's value requires comparing its performance to alternative assets rather than absolute price movement; in 2008, gold fell 25% while stocks fell 66%, making gold three times more valuable in relative purchasing power of equities despite the nominal price decline.
“Let me give you an example. If for example um the S&P goes down 80%. And my gold goes down 20%. Cuz there's margin calls and people are liquidating selling gold. And the knee-jerk reaction of most people will be well I thought gold was going to go up in times of crisis. But I might look at that gold down 20% with the S&P down 80% and realize, you know what, today I can buy three times as many units of the S&P with my gold as I could yesterday.”
Gold's value as a portfolio asset should be measured by what you can exchange it for, not its price in dollars; in 2008 when gold fell 25% but the S&P fell 66%, you could exchange gold for twice as many S&P units as before the fall, making it the superior asset at that moment despite the nominal price decline.
“the price is irrelevant. It's really what I can exchange it for.”
Gold ownership has historically provided reliable purchasing power preservation and psychological comfort during financial crises, preventing the anxiety-driven forced selling that afflicts equity-heavy portfolios during market crashes.
“I've not had to worry about it. I've not had to, you know, sit up when the markets have fallen out of bed and co and all those things. I've just not had to worry about those. I'm interested and I pay attention, but I haven't woken up in the middle of the night to stay up all night trying to get out of positions, which I'm so grateful to not have to do.”
Flows out of dollar assets and into alternative reserves will be visible to market professionals immersed in financial markets, but will be largely invisible to retail investors trading their own portfolios until the shift is materially complete.
“You'll you'll see that if you are immersed enough in markets to see the flows. Um, for the vast majority of people who are out there trading their own portfolio and stuff, they probably won't see that stuff happening until it's too late, uh, even though the signs were there all along.”
Asking yourself proactive questions about how the world has changed and what that means for your portfolio is far more valuable than seeking specific stock tips, because it forces genuinely useful portfolio rethinking rather than temporary tactical bets.
“I'd rather spend my time talking about things I know and sharing things with people that I know are going to have some use to them than some stock tip that I may or may not get right and they may or may not make money out of.”
The US federal debt trajectory is unsustainable, and the Fed will eventually monetize the debt rather than allow deflation or default, putting the economy on a path toward currency debasement.
“I do I think they're going to monetize the debt. I don't know what's going to happen, but I know we're heading that way. That's the track we're on.”
Gold accumulation and wealth preservation, when approached correctly, eliminates the need to worry about market volatility, preventing the stress of having to exit positions during crises due to margin calls or forced selling.
“The gold that I've bought to preserve my purchasing power and I've accumulated over the years has done that and more. Um and I've not had to worry about it. I've not had to, you know, sit up when the markets have fallen out of bed and co and all those things. I've just not had to worry about those. I'm interested and I pay attention, but I haven't woken up in the middle of the night to stay up all night trying to get out of positions”
Gold should be characterized as something you 'own' rather than something you 'buy' because the language of buying contains an implicit assumption of eventual sale, whereas ownership implies long-term wealth preservation without a predetermined exit point.
“gold isn't something you buy, it's something you own. Because if you talk of it in terms of buying, there's an implicit sell there. If you talk in terms of owning it, it's just a case of I want to accumulate this and let it sit there quietly and protect my purchasing power.”
The distinction between being an 'investor' versus a 'speculator' is critical to long-term success; if you think you're an investor but conduct your portfolio like a speculator (or vice versa), you are setting yourself up for failure and should first understand who you actually are and what your investment goals actually are.
“do you know what you are? Are you an investor or are you a speculator and if you are a speculator do you conduct your trading the right way or do you think of yourself as an investor? Because if you think you're an investor but you're really a speculator you're in trouble and vice versa. So let's first get back to basics. Understand who you are and what your goals are.”
Making gold price predictions is futile because the future price is unknowable, even to informed observers who understand the direction of travel.
“Well, it's pointless. It's pointless. I just I don't I don't I I don't look at the price. I don't care about the price of gold. Well, tell me about that. Well, I I don't I've never bought gold to make money. I bought gold to keep money. ... I don't know. I was talking to someone earlier today and they said, 'Well, you know, a year ago, did you know that the gold price is going to be 3500?' I said, 'Yeah, but I didn't know it was going to be now.”
Indonesia would not invade Ukraine, yet even Indonesia faces de-dollarization incentives because it now understands there are unknown conditions under which dollar reserves might be frozen, making diversification a rational security policy.
“Now, I don't think Indonesia is going to invade Ukraine anytime soon, but it told Indonesia that we don't know what they might be, but this is no longer sacred. The our reserves are no longer sacred. So, we're now incentivized to find alternatives.”
Interest rates must be low and falling, inflation must be low and falling, GDP must be growing, and productivity must be strong for an environment where holding gold is not strategically important—a 1980 scenario that may not recur.
“So there are decades I maintain where it makes sense to own gold and there are decades when it doesn't. So in 1980, interest rates were high and falling. Inflation was high and falling. GDP was strong, savings were high. productivity was strong. Why would you own gold?”
The debt problem has been widely acknowledged as unsustainable by everyone for years, yet nothing has been done to address it, suggesting the political incentive structure prevents action until crisis forces change.
“it's always been a case of whenever it matters, it matters and it's going to matter a lot, but until that day comes, everybody knows, right, that it's a problem. Everyone knows that it's unsustainable, but no one's actually done anything about it just yet. So, until that day happens, it'll carry on, but it's just it's getting a little bit more fragile, I think.”
The world has materially changed since 2020, yet most investors have not reconsidered their portfolio strategy despite acknowledging the change; the gap between recognition of change and portfolio adaptation is where investor risk concentrates.
“And I asked people in the room to for a show of hands as to whether who people thought the world had changed since 2020. Just about every hand in the room went up. And so you've got a room full of people that acknowledge the world has changed. And then later on I got them to acknowledge that they've had this incredibly um serendipitous period of time to invest in that they all should have made money in. But those two things it doesn't sound like a good combo.”
Most investors don't perceive the market warning signs of an approaching dollar crisis until it's too late; those immersed enough in markets might see the flows moving away from dollar assets, but retail investors trading their own portfolios will likely miss these signals entirely until price action forces them to react.
“You'll see that if you are immersed enough in markets to see the flows. Um, for the vast majority of people who are out there trading their own portfolio and stuff, they probably won't see that stuff happening until it's too late, uh, even though the signs were there all along”
Stock tips and sector recommendations are proliferative at investment conferences and contribute noise rather than insight, so genuine value comes from helping investors reframe how they think about markets and allocate capital rather than from individual security picks.
“what I've been trying to do um for the last couple of years, and I did it again with my presentation here, is um is try and get people to just think a differently and think about different things and and I think you know we're here there are well there are hundred people here who who will give you stock tips right more there are people who will give you stock tips even if you don't want to you're running down the hall like that and they shout stock tips at you which is which is great and a lot of people love that but because there are so many people that will do that I don't see the point of me adding to that noise right But if I can talk to you about about how you think about investing”
Most mainstream investors (particularly in America) believe in 'king dollar'—the notion that US dollar dominance is sacred and permanent—and see no incentive or reason to conceive of a world with a different reserve currency system, in contrast to investors in Asia who acknowledge the shift is already occurring.
“If you ask people in Asia they would probably say yes. You ask people in America they would definitely say no because to them king dollar is sacred and it it has always been sacred and so why would they conceive anything different”
Asian countries see clear incentives to reduce dollar reliance and develop alternatives, while American policymakers treat 'king dollar' as sacred and unchangeable, creating an asymmetry in how different parts of the world perceive the dollar standard.
“Uh it depends who you ask right? If you ask if you ask people in Asia they would probably say yes. You ask people in America they would definitely say no because to them king dollar is sacred and it it has always been sacred and so why would they conceive anything different and to them it's not any kind of problem right? So they don't have any they're not there's no incentive for them to to dollar denominated other countries not so much. There are clear incentives now to try and at least reduce reliance upon the dollar”
Making one major asset allocation decision per decade (buy gold in 1970, switch to Japanese equities in 1980, switch to tech in 1990, switch back to gold in 2000) produced a 200x return over 40 years, demonstrating that infrequent rebalancing based on regime change outperforms constant trading.
“I put a chart together um that showed uh making one decision a decade over 40 years... you bought gold in 1970... Cuz you're worried about inflation. You held it to 1980 when interest rates got high... Then you sold it... you bought Japanese equities cuz that was the next big thing... You held them. Gets to 1990. Markets turned over... you buy tech stocks cuz they were the next big thing... And you get to 2000, you flip it back into gold again... making four decisions in 40 years, one decision a decade, and you were up 200x.”
The world has meaningfully changed since 2020, yet most investors who acknowledge this change have not adjusted their portfolio strategies accordingly despite the fact that 40 years of favorable conditions are unlikely to repeat.
“who people thought the world had changed since 2020. Just about every hand in the room went up. And so you've got a room full of people that acknowledge the world has changed. And then later on I got them to acknowledge that they've had this incredibly um serendipitous period of time to invest in that they all should have made money in.”
Every country that holds energy reserves (importers or exporters) holds dollar reserves, making all of them vulnerable to the same reserve-freezing risk, not just geopolitically hostile nations.
“everybody that holds dollar reserves, which is everybody because everyone's either a net importer or an exporter of energy”
Justice Potter Stewart's maxim 'I know it when I see it' applies to assessing when gold is no longer a necessary portfolio holding—it requires recognizing situational cues rather than following a fixed rule.
“It's you know it's like um that famous uh Justice Potter Stewart judgment about pornography. I can't describe it but I know it when I see it.”
Investors should only exit their gold positions when they observe a clear signal that something else offers better relative value in absolute terms—not based on a predetermined price target—and this decision framework is comparable to recognizing obscenity: 'I can't describe it but I know it when I see it.'
“What would be the circumstance where gold would no longer be a mandatory portfolio asset? It's you know it's like um that famous uh Justice Potter Stewart judgment about pornography. I can't describe it but I know it when I see it.”
Gold equities require substantial focus and ongoing monitoring to manage effectively, making them a less appropriate vehicle for passive wealth preservation compared to physical gold.
“Um I am but I I'm I mean I'm too busy to focus on them right now. I'm just too busy and they require a lot of focus. That's true. They really do. You don't check out. You got to be so”
Investors should personally hold a portfolio of approximately 60% physical gold, 20-40% short-term cash instruments, and select private loans to people/businesses they know and trust, rather than more complex asset structures.
“for me I'm very happy owning like 60% in gold very happy at times I'll have 20 um but I'm very happy owning 60% gold and and a bunch of short-term cash instruments and some private loans that I've got with businesses that I know inside and out with people that I trust and I know that I'm going to get that money back”
Gold ownership should comprise a significant portion of a diversified portfolio; Grant Williams is 'very happy' owning 60% of his portfolio in gold, with the remainder in short-term cash instruments and private loans to trusted business partners he knows intimately.
“for me I'm very happy owning like 60% in gold very happy at times I'll have 20 um but I'm very happy owning 60% gold and and a bunch of short-term cash instruments and some private loans that I've got with businesses that I know inside and out with people that I trust and I know that I'm going to get that money back.”
Grant Williams is the publisher of 'Things That Make You Go Hm,' a report that Trey Reich has read for years as a subscriber.
“Grant is the publisher of the very interesting report, Things That Make You Go, Hm, which I've read for years”
Grant Williams has been publishing 'Things That Make You Go, Hm' for 16 years and the interviewer has been a paid subscriber using soft dollar accounts, making him intimately familiar with Williams' analysis.
“Grant Williams, who is the publisher of the very interesting report, Things That Make You Go, Hm, which I've read for years...back in July I had a very interesting conversation with Grant Williams...16 years. And I uh when I had a big soft dollar account, I used to be a paid subscriber”
By July 2024, gold was trading at just under $3,800 per ounce, representing an increase from approximately $3,400 per ounce when Grant Williams and the interviewer had a prior conversation (earlier in July).
“gold trading just under $3,800 bucks an ounce [1:05] because back then it was trading at just under $3,400 an ounce”
The current legislative and policy environment, particularly a recently passed bill, appears to be accelerating rather than slowing the trajectory toward debt monetization and system stress.
“and there's not anything that I can see particularly now that the this bill has passed um that is going to change things in fact it's going to accelerate them”
Rick Rule's attendees and their executives attend his conference primarily to 'support Rick' rather than for direct business benefit, suggesting the conference is valued for its community and social function.
“I asked my bosses and boss's bosses who we met last night at dinner why they were here and they go to support Rick... Exactly. Right. And uh And I know that for a fact he really enjoys these conferences more than anything that he does. He loves to people and getting to meet them and pressing the flesh and helping people.”
Rick Rule, who hosts the Natural Resources Symposium, is widely beloved in the investment community and runs the conference primarily to support people and help investors rather than for commercial purposes.
“he's just the prince of a human being, right? And he's just one of those people that you meet him and he's just he's just a fantastic guy. So, I I love Rick and Bonnie. They're just they're just two of my favorite people in the world.”
Recent legislation (likely referring to a fiscal bill passed around the time of the interview) accelerates debt sustainability problems rather than improving them.
“there's not anything that I can see particularly now that the this bill has passed um that is going to change things in fact it's going to accelerate them”
Gold is rising in price (the interview was conducted when gold was trading 'just under $3,800 an ounce' compared to 'just under $3,400 an ounce' in July), which aligns with Williams' thesis about de-dollarization and wealth preservation.
“gold trading just under $3,800 bucks an ounce... back then it was trading at just under $3,400 an ounce”
The dollar had a rough year (as of the time of recording in July 2024), serving as one indicator that the process of de-dollarization may be accelerating.
“The reaction in the dollar this year obviously it's had a really rough year so far.”
Grant Williams attended the Rick Rule Natural Resources Symposium in Boca Raton for approximately 10 years (back to its Vancouver iteration), having been invited by Rick Rule for multiple appearances.
“And I uh when I had a big soft dollar account, I used to be a paid subscriber, but now I'm just uh you know, now that I no longer have the soft dollars, I'm just a fan. Um and I I wanted to start by asking you, is this your first Rick Rule conference? God, no. No. I've been I've been doing this for a number of years. I was doing it back in Vancouver. Uhhuh. So what, 20? No, no, no, no, no, no. Uh yeah, maybe close to 10, actually.”
Bond market behavior has begun acting 'weirdly' and not as it has historically acted, signaling that something in the underlying system is becoming unstable.
“You're starting to see the bond market act weirdly and not the way it should act and not the way it has acted.”
Grant Williams has been attending Rick Rule's Natural Resources Symposium for approximately 10 years, previously when it was held in Vancouver and more recently in Boca Raton, Florida.
“I've been doing this for a number of years. I was doing it back in Vancouver... maybe close to 10, actually”
Rick Rule is described as 'the prince of a human being' and one of Williams' favorite people in the world, with strong interpersonal relationships including Rick's spouse Bonnie.
“he's just the prince of a human being, right? And he's just one of those people that you meet him and he's just he's just a fantastic guy. So, I I love Rick and Bonnie. They're just they're just two of my favorite people in the world.”
Trey Reich, the interviewer, was formerly a soft-dollar account manager who was a paid subscriber to Grant Williams' 'Things That Make You Go Hm' newsletter but is now only a fan due to no longer having soft dollars available for subscriptions.
“I used to be a paid subscriber, but now I'm just uh you know, now that I no longer have the soft dollars, I'm just uh you know, now that I no longer have the soft dollars, I'm just a fan.”
Gold equities (stocks of gold mining companies) are potentially attractive investments but require substantial focus and due diligence that Grant Williams does not currently have capacity for.
“You mentioned why you own gold which is basically savings um and to perfect protect purchasing power. Are you interested in gold equities? Um I am but I I'm I mean I'm too busy to focus on them right now. I'm just too busy and they require a lot of focus.”
A panel discussion at the previous day's conference was contentious ('almost a fisticuff') with 'very smart people talking about very smart issues' involving debate about Fed policy and debt sustainability.
“You were on a panel yesterday which I got a lot of a lot of enjoyment out of. It was almost a fisticuff by the end of it. But uh but there were some very very smart people um talking about Yeah. And well no and talking about very smart issues.”
Hard Assets Alliance (hardassetsalliance.com) is presented as a 'simple, secure way to invest in physical gold and silver,' framed as a sponsor endorsement.
“If you're looking for a simple, secure way to invest in physical gold and silver, check out Hardass Assets Alliance at hardassetsalliance.com.”
Grant Williams had difficulty hearing during yesterday's panel discussion and was therefore not involved in most of the conversation.
“Well no and talking about very smart issues. I I do remember you couldn't hear very well so you didn't you weren't involved in most some of the conversation”
The entire conversation recorded at Rick Rule's July 2024 Natural Resources Symposium in Boca Raton is being published by Wealthion to help investors understand current market conditions.
“back in July I had a very interesting conversation with Grant Williams at the Rick Rule Natural Resources Symposium down in Boca Raton.”
The NBRIDGE system used by China is technically developing but has not yet reached a stage of maturity that would require immediate detailed analysis by international observers.
“Um, it hasn't reached the kind of stage where I feel like I need to be all over it yet cuz they are starting into technical details and that type of heading that way for sure.”
The conference attendees (at the Rick Rule Natural Resources Symposium) unanimously confirmed with raised hands that making money should have been easy over the past 40 years, validating Williams' assessment of the exceptional tailwind period.
“Just about every hand in the room went up.”
There was a panel discussion on the day before this interview that was intellectually contentious ('almost a fisticuff by the end of it') and featured very smart people discussing important topics related to debt and the Fed's policy options.
“You were on a panel yesterday which I got a lot of a lot of enjoyment out of. It was almost a fisticuff by the end of it. But uh but there were some very very smart people um talking about...very smart issues.”
Grant Williams had difficulty hearing audio during the panel discussion and therefore was not able to participate in most of the conversation despite being a panelist.
“I do remember you couldn't hear very well so you didn't you weren't involved in most some of the conversation”